air bags under a 67-72 burb? - Page 2 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

darcane · 06-05-2004, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KutThroatKustoms

Your stock springs dont push and put stress on the bars. springs are a steady rate. Air bags with more air, push down, putting more stress on them.

So, what you're saying is that when the truck is sitting there, not moving, the force on the trailing arms increases as you pressurize the bags? i.e. at 50psi in the bags the force pushing down on the trailing arms would be X and at 100psi the force pushing down would be about 2X?

LONGHAIR · 06-07-2004, 12:05 AM

When the truck is sitting still (assuming that you are not pushing against an upper travel limiter) there would be no difference. The weight of the truck is the same, so the incerased air pressure just makes the bag taller, thus raising the truck. It is when the truck is moving(or loaded) that the increased pressure would act as increased spring-rate too.
A bump that would force the axle to be deflected upward with a lower air pressure would apply that force to the entire weight of the truck if the bag had greater pressure.
The force involved is dependant upon the placement of the bag. The closer the bag is to the pivot point, more force is applied to the trailing arms. As the bag is moved closer to the rear axle itself there is less force applied to the trailing arms, but you get less lift.

XXL · 06-07-2004, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KutThroatKustoms

air bags push DOWN, the air enters at the top and it pushes down, which pushes the rear end down and the frame goes up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KutThroatKustoms

If your truck tows with the setup.. cool. But some trucks use 2"x2" frame for stock floors.. but i guess since it hasnt fallin apart, its "right" to do, even tho its deflection is more then stock (i know we're not talking about bd's, but its the point that matters).

Prerunner1982 · 06-07-2004, 02:13 PM

hmmm 2 link...

another 2 link...

another....

i see a trend, sooo what you are saying is that a bagged truck is more intense than this? please.... a properly reinforced 2link on a bagged truck will do just fine.

smokekiki · 06-07-2004, 02:35 PM

That bottom truck is too much!

XXL · 06-07-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prerunner1982

i see a trend, sooo what you are saying is that a bagged truck is more intense than this? please.... a properly reinforced 2link on a bagged truck will do just fine.

Pre... you will also notice that the air in these trucks is UNDER the suspension, which explains why the suspensions are not currently pushing against the ground. In order to get these trucks back down, one would have to put the air in from the TOP!

LONGHAIR · 06-07-2004, 03:47 PM

Lmao..............Actually in that case the bags wouldn't be pushing against anything would they?

68C15 · 06-07-2004, 10:03 PM

I'm with gheto also. I have firestone 2600 bags in place of stock coils with a 2" spacer on top & stock arms. I regularly haul scrap metal to the tune of about 1800# in bed & pull trailer with about a 800 # tongue load. I bring the bags up to about 100 psi. dont want to go any further for safety sake. have been doing this twice a month for last 2 years with no problem at all. if bags are put in same place as coils there will be no more problem than you would have with stock style springs.
although I am planning on moving the bags to rear of axle for improved ride. was thinking of using 9000 series bags until now.

BK · 10-13-2004, 12:29 AM

KutThroatKustoms, im not gonna get into this dispute, but i would like to point something out. Get under an 04/05 or maybe just 05 new burban, or tahoe also i believe, look at the rear suspension. Well ill be damned, 3 link, or 2 trailing arms and pan hard bar with coil springs, or... EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE ON THE 60-72 TRUCKS!!! Just thought id point that out. Found that out cause i did a service on a friends 05 sub the other day, was amazed, but see they are going back to old style suspension, cool eh, now we are all ahead of the game!

68plus4sub · 10-14-2004, 12:52 AM

Wow that's all pretty interesting, I wish I had more knowledge to try and toss in my two cents....I will say that I thought that air did not expand up or down, but equally outward inside of whatever it was pressurizing, but who knows I just used common sense and experience to come up with that....I could be completely wrong. Did make me think though, especially because I'm right in the middle of putting bags on the rear of my burb. I can't imagine treating my truck so bad as to buckle the trailing arms, and I've never heard of it, but I also haven't seen hundreds of these trucks bagged like some others. I guess if I trash mine I'll say "I told you so" to myself for Kutthroatkustoms, then try and find this post again to see what I should do!!

All in all I took a lot out of this thread and learned some things....so thanks guys for all your knowledge.

BK · 10-14-2004, 12:58 AM

I would also like to point out, KutThroatKustoms, go get a balloon and blow in it, tell me if just the opposite side you are blowing on moves, or if the whole thing expands. Thanks.

ChevyCruizer · 10-14-2004, 01:18 AM

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction! If i push on a wall it pushes back with the same amount of force that i am applying. Either the wall will move (unlikley) or i will move away from the wall equal to the amount of force that i am applying. Simple physics, same with the bag. It doesn't care how it is mounted. It applies pressure (force) equally. Since the trailing arm or axle is in contact with an immovable object (the ground) the other end of the bag has to move. Therefore as pressure increases the frame rises. Unless you overload the bag with too much weight or psi, then it ruptures.

**N2TRUX** · 10-14-2004, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slammed67

.......Isn't the truck trailing arm design called a 3-link? Two arms (2) and a panhard bar (1).....

Actually no it's not. For some reason the panhard bar is never counted as a link. It's the same as a 4 link set up, but you never hear it refered to as a 5 link....

LONGHAIR · 10-14-2004, 06:32 PM

Yeah, a 3-link has a triangulated upper arm and eliminates the panhard rod all-together...........just to add to the confusion.

TOYOTA61384 · 02-03-2005, 04:47 PM

In response to 68C15, I assume by better ride you me smoother, right? To get a nice ride quality you want to move the bag closer to the pivot so that it will have more leverage against it inturn smooter ride quality. Where as performance handling it will have best results closest to the affected wheel

.

Did that make any sense? Correct me if I'm wrong.

06-07-2004, 02:13 PM	#29
Prerunner1982 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,906	hmmm 2 link... another 2 link... another.... i see a trend, sooo what you are saying is that a bagged truck is more intense than this? please.... a properly reinforced 2link on a bagged truck will do just fine. __________________ Jon 1982 Chevy Silverado 350/th350.... RETIRED 1993 Jeep XJ 2 door(Cherokee) 4wd 4.0ltr/AX-15 (5spd)/NP231 .... Oklahoma Roll Call

06-07-2004, 02:35 PM	#30
smokekiki Mike Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: west chester pa Posts: 2,474	That bottom truck is too much! __________________ 70'c/10, 71 suburban4x4 402bb, 72suburban 4/6 drop, 72k/5 4x4 blazer 4" lift 35 tires

06-07-2004, 10:03 PM	#33
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	I'm with gheto also. I have firestone 2600 bags in place of stock coils with a 2" spacer on top & stock arms. I regularly haul scrap metal to the tune of about 1800# in bed & pull trailer with about a 800 # tongue load. I bring the bags up to about 100 psi. dont want to go any further for safety sake. have been doing this twice a month for last 2 years with no problem at all. if bags are put in same place as coils there will be no more problem than you would have with stock style springs. although I am planning on moving the bags to rear of axle for improved ride. was thinking of using 9000 series bags until now. __________________ Man rule #77...if you own a 67 stepside with a caddy 472 you will never be in danger of loosing you man card

10-14-2004, 12:52 AM	#35
68plus4sub Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 210	Wow that's all pretty interesting, I wish I had more knowledge to try and toss in my two cents....I will say that I thought that air did not expand up or down, but equally outward inside of whatever it was pressurizing, but who knows I just used common sense and experience to come up with that....I could be completely wrong. Did make me think though, especially because I'm right in the middle of putting bags on the rear of my burb. I can't imagine treating my truck so bad as to buckle the trailing arms, and I've never heard of it, but I also haven't seen hundreds of these trucks bagged like some others. I guess if I trash mine I'll say "I told you so" to myself for Kutthroatkustoms, then try and find this post again to see what I should do!! All in all I took a lot out of this thread and learned some things....so thanks guys for all your knowledge. __________________ 1972 Chevrolet Suburban ('68 front clip), 2wd, 350/350, factory tilt 2008 Kawasaki Concours 14 1997 Harley-Davidson Soft Tail Custom 1948 Chevrolet Coupe (project) 1972 Porsche 914

10-14-2004, 01:18 AM	#37
ChevyCruizer 17's too small Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 335	Every action has an equal and opposite reaction! If i push on a wall it pushes back with the same amount of force that i am applying. Either the wall will move (unlikley) or i will move away from the wall equal to the amount of force that i am applying. Simple physics, same with the bag. It doesn't care how it is mounted. It applies pressure (force) equally. Since the trailing arm or axle is in contact with an immovable object (the ground) the other end of the bag has to move. Therefore as pressure increases the frame rises. Unless you overload the bag with too much weight or psi, then it ruptures. __________________ 68 C10 SWB SS 5 lug power disc brake conversion 2.5 inch drop spindles van tilt column Air Ride Technologies Cool Ride air bag kits Performance Online tubular upper control arms and shock relocator kits ECE super track panhard bar 1 piece side windows

06-07-2004, 12:05 AM	#27
LONGHAIR just can't cover up my redneck Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbus OH Posts: 11,414	When the truck is sitting still (assuming that you are not pushing against an upper travel limiter) there would be no difference. The weight of the truck is the same, so the incerased air pressure just makes the bag taller, thus raising the truck. It is when the truck is moving(or loaded) that the increased pressure would act as increased spring-rate too. A bump that would force the axle to be deflected upward with a lower air pressure would apply that force to the entire weight of the truck if the bag had greater pressure. The force involved is dependant upon the placement of the bag. The closer the bag is to the pivot point, more force is applied to the trailing arms. As the bag is moved closer to the rear axle itself there is less force applied to the trailing arms, but you get less lift.

06-07-2004, 03:47 PM	#32
LONGHAIR just can't cover up my redneck Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbus OH Posts: 11,414	Lmao..............Actually in that case the bags wouldn't be pushing against anything would they?

10-13-2004, 12:29 AM	#34
BK BK Built Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oroville, WA Posts: 478	KutThroatKustoms, im not gonna get into this dispute, but i would like to point something out. Get under an 04/05 or maybe just 05 new burban, or tahoe also i believe, look at the rear suspension. Well ill be damned, 3 link, or 2 trailing arms and pan hard bar with coil springs, or... EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE ON THE 60-72 TRUCKS!!! Just thought id point that out. Found that out cause i did a service on a friends 05 sub the other day, was amazed, but see they are going back to old style suspension, cool eh, now we are all ahead of the game!

10-14-2004, 12:58 AM	#36
BK BK Built Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oroville, WA Posts: 478	I would also like to point out, KutThroatKustoms, go get a balloon and blow in it, tell me if just the opposite side you are blowing on moves, or if the whole thing expands. Thanks.

10-14-2004, 06:32 PM	#39
LONGHAIR just can't cover up my redneck Join Date: May 2004 Location: Columbus OH Posts: 11,414	Yeah, a 3-link has a triangulated upper arm and eliminates the panhard rod all-together...........just to add to the confusion.

02-03-2005, 04:47 PM	#40
TOYOTA61384 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Fort Collins CO Posts: 71	In response to 68C15, I assume by better ride you me smoother, right? To get a nice ride quality you want to move the bag closer to the pivot so that it will have more leverage against it inturn smooter ride quality. Where as performance handling it will have best results closest to the affected wheel . Did that make any sense? Correct me if I'm wrong.



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