'87 GMC - Slow or no cranking - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Jason Spears · 02-05-2005, 07:48 PM

I'm stumped. My '87 is having trouble starting. It has been happening for a while. The starter is having a very hard time turning the engine over. It cranks very slowly. If the engine is hot, it sometimes cannot turn the engine over at all.

Last week end I took the starter off and had it tested. It tested ok. (I'm not terribly confident in this because it took three people at Partsource to figure out how to test the unit.) I ended up replaceing the battery because it tested bad.

The truck started ok (but not normal) for the first part of the week, but by the end of this week I was back to where I was before. I started to suspect the alternator so I took it to get tested this morning and it tested ok.

The engine is pretty worn and I plan on changing it out in a few months. I though maybe I spun a bearing or something but I turned the engine over by hand this morning and it was not harder to turn over than normal.

The truck starts easier if I hook up jumper cables and boost the battery with another vehicle.

I don't know what to do now. Does anyone have any ideas? I need the truck to get to work during the week but I don't want to just start changing out parts.

Thanks in advance.

corn · 02-05-2005, 07:53 PM

bad connection? does the starter sound strange? or just slow? next time you jump it to start it feel the cables, are they getting hot?

Jason Spears · 02-05-2005, 08:57 PM

It sounds really "rough" when starting. I cleaned all of the connections. I'll try feeling the cables tomorrow. Thanks.

marvxyz · 02-05-2005, 09:07 PM

Try checking out your timing

marvxyz · 02-05-2005, 09:08 PM

also check compression

Jason Spears · 02-05-2005, 09:48 PM

The timing should be ok, i just checked it in the fall and have not done anything to the engine since. I haven't measured the compression but I know it isn't great.

I can understand how these two things could make starting hard but how would it make it hard to crank the engine. The engine starts fine once it turns over, its just getting it to turn over. Thanks for the help. Keep the ideas coming.

87 STEPPER · 02-05-2005, 09:53 PM

The first thing id'e do is ck both + & - leads for internal corrosion they may look good on the out side but inside they could be shot ck them with an ohm meter for hi resistance ck all connections ck to see if your block to frame ground strap is corroded or damaged in any way or missing. ck the smaller batt. groung for the same things and ck all leads that there the proper size.

Thats about all i can think of right now.

plumbcut · 02-05-2005, 10:08 PM

yeah- check for XLNT connections from the battery to the starter and all grounds.... then replace the starter if that doesnt fix it... Do you run headers? a heat soaked starter is a lost cause. Ive had many mis-diagnosis' from parts houses... their guys just arent trained well enough to do a quality diagnosis. I could do a better job just by listening to the starter on the truck...

the extra juice (amperage) from a jump start probably gives the starter a little extra push, but my $ is on bad starter. Unless your timing is really wild, it shouldnt affect cranking, and you replaced the battery already, so.....

pc

Folks1 · 02-05-2005, 10:44 PM

Is this 87 fuel injected or carb?

74Pumpkin · 02-06-2005, 12:24 AM

I had the same type of issue a while back. After trying to figure out the prob for a Looooong time. Mine ended up being a bad ground strap from the engine to the firewall. I fixed that one and added another to the frame and that fixed the starter prob!

Jason Spears · 02-06-2005, 09:29 AM

'87 is fuel injected. The timing is stock (0 degrees). Stock manifolds.

The ground strap from the engine to the firewall appears to be in good shape. I will check it out in more detail.

Thanks for all the help.

Jason

784X4GUY · 02-06-2005, 10:33 AM

When I had starting problems, it was my battery was just old and shot. So I replaced it and everything worked great. And if your timing is correct, Id look at the starter getting heat soaked. Good luck with it man...Later Mike

Trimman · 02-06-2005, 10:52 AM

The starter can have a bad winding and still check "ok" but be weak under load, heat makes it worse.

1986Silverado · 02-06-2005, 10:55 AM

Believe it or not, timing does affect how fast or slow it turns over. I had an 85 that would turn over slow then finally catch up and start. I adjusted the timimg a little and it turned over and started witht the first turn of the key. May not be your problem, just a thought.

**Boog** · 02-06-2005, 11:27 AM

And an engine with weak compression will start fair when cold and be a devil to start when warm, new starter and battery or not. You might try backing the timing down 2 to 4 degrees and try that.

cliffsta · 02-06-2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Spears

. The timing is stock (0 degrees).
Jason

i thought its 8 degrees BTDC? It changed over the years?

1986Silverado · 02-06-2005, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cliffsta

i thought its 8 degrees BTDC? It changed over the years?

Nope, stock specs call for 0 degrees

Jason Spears · 02-06-2005, 06:53 PM

Well, it was the starter. I checked out all of the cables this morning with the multimeter and they all checked out so I took the plunge and and got a brand new Hitachi starter at Canadian Tire this morning. I just finished putting it in and the truck starts great now.

I didn't really watch to see what they did when they tested the starter. I guess they just gave it juice and watched to see if it ran. I thought they would meggar the winding to see if it was bad.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all of the help.

Just out of curiosity, did anyone else ever have a starter set up correctly without any shims? This one did. First time I ever seen one go in without any.

Cheers.

Jason

mitch1965 · 02-06-2005, 07:22 PM

I just replaced the starter on my "new" '85 K20, same symptoms as yours. Sometimes, it would start up just fine, other times is acted like a dead battery. My starter died at Auto Zone, and the guy there brought out a tester, showing it drawing 400 Amps while cranking. It should be only 100 or so. Bought a new starter, and like yours, it did not need any shims. Good Luck.

02-05-2005, 07:48 PM	#1
Jason Spears Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, ON Posts: 89	'87 GMC - Slow or no cranking I'm stumped. My '87 is having trouble starting. It has been happening for a while. The starter is having a very hard time turning the engine over. It cranks very slowly. If the engine is hot, it sometimes cannot turn the engine over at all. Last week end I took the starter off and had it tested. It tested ok. (I'm not terribly confident in this because it took three people at Partsource to figure out how to test the unit.) I ended up replaceing the battery because it tested bad. The truck started ok (but not normal) for the first part of the week, but by the end of this week I was back to where I was before. I started to suspect the alternator so I took it to get tested this morning and it tested ok. The engine is pretty worn and I plan on changing it out in a few months. I though maybe I spun a bearing or something but I turned the engine over by hand this morning and it was not harder to turn over than normal. The truck starts easier if I hook up jumper cables and boost the battery with another vehicle. I don't know what to do now. Does anyone have any ideas? I need the truck to get to work during the week but I don't want to just start changing out parts. Thanks in advance.

02-05-2005, 09:53 PM	#7
87 STEPPER STILL PLAYS WITH TRUX Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Melbourne, Fla. Posts: 2,764	The first thing id'e do is ck both + & - leads for internal corrosion they may look good on the out side but inside they could be shot ck them with an ohm meter for hi resistance ck all connections ck to see if your block to frame ground strap is corroded or damaged in any way or missing. ck the smaller batt. groung for the same things and ck all leads that there the proper size. Thats about all i can think of right now. __________________ ~~Bruce~~ MY 87 STEPPER MY 99 2D/WD TAHOE

02-05-2005, 10:44 PM	#9
Folks1 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Palatka,Florida Posts: 27	Is this 87 fuel injected or carb? __________________ '72 K/5 Factory 4Spd '86 K-10 SWB Silverado '88 K-1500 GMC Z-71 Stepside '75 c-60 8yd dump '06 F-350 KingRanch 4X4

02-06-2005, 12:24 AM	#10
74Pumpkin Insert witty comment here Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lakeville Minnesota Posts: 388	I had the same type of issue a while back. After trying to figure out the prob for a Looooong time. Mine ended up being a bad ground strap from the engine to the firewall. I fixed that one and added another to the frame and that fixed the starter prob! __________________ So many trucks, So little time!

02-06-2005, 10:33 AM	#12
784X4GUY Did someone say MUD? Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pullman,WA Posts: 1,089	When I had starting problems, it was my battery was just old and shot. So I replaced it and everything worked great. And if your timing is correct, Id look at the starter getting heat soaked. Good luck with it man...Later Mike __________________ Im in the market guys...so keep ya eyes peeled -------------------- Mini trucks are for guys who cant get it up!

02-05-2005, 07:53 PM	#2
corn Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: here Posts: 5,789	bad connection? does the starter sound strange? or just slow? next time you jump it to start it feel the cables, are they getting hot?

02-05-2005, 08:57 PM	#3
Jason Spears Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, ON Posts: 89	It sounds really "rough" when starting. I cleaned all of the connections. I'll try feeling the cables tomorrow. Thanks.

02-05-2005, 09:07 PM	#4
marvxyz Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 27	Try checking out your timing

02-05-2005, 09:08 PM	#5
marvxyz Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa. Posts: 27	also check compression

02-05-2005, 09:48 PM	#6
Jason Spears Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, ON Posts: 89	The timing should be ok, i just checked it in the fall and have not done anything to the engine since. I haven't measured the compression but I know it isn't great. I can understand how these two things could make starting hard but how would it make it hard to crank the engine. The engine starts fine once it turns over, its just getting it to turn over. Thanks for the help. Keep the ideas coming.

02-05-2005, 10:08 PM	#8
plumbcut california fill Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sunny So-Cal Posts: 694	yeah- check for XLNT connections from the battery to the starter and all grounds.... then replace the starter if that doesnt fix it... Do you run headers? a heat soaked starter is a lost cause. Ive had many mis-diagnosis' from parts houses... their guys just arent trained well enough to do a quality diagnosis. I could do a better job just by listening to the starter on the truck... the extra juice (amperage) from a jump start probably gives the starter a little extra push, but my $ is on bad starter. Unless your timing is really wild, it shouldnt affect cranking, and you replaced the battery already, so..... pc

02-06-2005, 09:29 AM	#11
Jason Spears Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, ON Posts: 89	'87 is fuel injected. The timing is stock (0 degrees). Stock manifolds. The ground strap from the engine to the firewall appears to be in good shape. I will check it out in more detail. Thanks for all the help. Jason

02-06-2005, 10:52 AM	#13
Trimman Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Hixson TN. Posts: 74	The starter can have a bad winding and still check "ok" but be weak under load, heat makes it worse. __________________ 82 C-10 Scottsdale LB owned since 89 350 crate vortec heads Crane 1.6 full rollers edelbrock 1406 edelbrock performer eps intake dynomax headers/flowmaster 70's BTO 700r4 level 3 custom 2 piece driveshaft 12 bolt gov loc w/3.08

02-06-2005, 10:55 AM	#14
1986Silverado What I drive Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Star, MS Posts: 418	Believe it or not, timing does affect how fast or slow it turns over. I had an 85 that would turn over slow then finally catch up and start. I adjusted the timimg a little and it turned over and started witht the first turn of the key. May not be your problem, just a thought. __________________ 1986 Chevy Crew Cab Dually(Choo-Choo Conversion) 2006 Chevy Equinox

02-06-2005, 11:27 AM	#15
Boog laying low Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Searcy, Ark. USA Posts: 13,535	And an engine with weak compression will start fair when cold and be a devil to start when warm, new starter and battery or not. You might try backing the timing down 2 to 4 degrees and try that. __________________ Boog 69 Chevy stepside, 358/T350, 4.11 posi, 4.5/4 drop, rallys, poboy driver primer is finer 91 Chevy sportside, Tahoe, Yukon & GMC Crewcab All GM..'nuff said. I stand for the flag and kneel at the cross



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02-06-2005, 06:53 PM	#18
Jason Spears Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Stoney Creek, ON Posts: 89	Well, it was the starter. I checked out all of the cables this morning with the multimeter and they all checked out so I took the plunge and and got a brand new Hitachi starter at Canadian Tire this morning. I just finished putting it in and the truck starts great now. I didn't really watch to see what they did when they tested the starter. I guess they just gave it juice and watched to see if it ran. I thought they would meggar the winding to see if it was bad. Anyway, thanks to everyone for all of the help. Just out of curiosity, did anyone else ever have a starter set up correctly without any shims? This one did. First time I ever seen one go in without any. Cheers. Jason

02-06-2005, 07:22 PM	#19
mitch1965 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 376	I just replaced the starter on my "new" '85 K20, same symptoms as yours. Sometimes, it would start up just fine, other times is acted like a dead battery. My starter died at Auto Zone, and the guy there brought out a tester, showing it drawing 400 Amps while cranking. It should be only 100 or so. Bought a new starter, and like yours, it did not need any shims. Good Luck.

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