454 SS engine swap??

[tommie]

i have access to a 90 model 454 SS motor and th400 trans.
all the sensors and efi computer but no wiring. ($800)

has anybody done this swap?

oh by the way im going from a 250 6cyl and 3sp trans to this (mabey)

what all is involved?
the towers for the engine mount is different right?

does painless wiring make a harness for this swap?

the trans has an electronic spedo, can i swap this back to cable?

just wondering if this is worth it or not?
if not this then i will think about a small block.

has anyone on the board swapped in a fuel injected big block?

thanks for the help

tommie
70' short wide

[68 Suburban]

I understood the SS 454 was not all that. I think you might be better off with a Vortec 350.

[tommie]

well,

thats kind of another choice thats on my mind also,

a vortec 350 and 700r4. but, i haven't found one reasonably priced yet, anyone know where to find one?

tommie

[68 Suburban]

I just dont think the SS 454 really had that great of power ratings. It was cool to have SS 454 on the side of the truck, put it just didn't have it from what I understand.

[speeddemon]

If you can find a complete big block and a trans for 800.00 jump on it! You can always go with a regular carb. set up

[Sevans327]

My friend had one of these. We ended up selling the engine and tranny after running 16.2 in the quarter (he got beat by a dodge neon). We swapped in a corvette ls1 with a street and performance wiring harness with the 4l60e behind it. The truck ran 14.5 after..That tbi 454 is definately not all its suppose to be.

Sevans

[68 Suburban]

Sevans327, that is the point I was trying to get accross. I had heard that a 1990 350 truck could beat a 1990 SS454 truck.

[Scott70Chevy]

I agree you could hop up the 454 SS to suit your tastes, but stock they were only slightly more powerful than the 350's of that year. Problem was, they took the 454 out of the 1 ton truck and put it in a hot rod truck without changing the tuning. The 350 made 210 hp and 300 ft-lb, but the 454 only made 220 or 225 hp (don't remember for sure). However, it did make gobs more max torque at only 1600 rpm! I understand they ran out of breath somewhere between 3000 and 4000 rpm. After a couple of years, they retuned the engine for 255 hp and added a 4-spd auto tranny. Even then, it was only equal to the hp of the '96+ vortec 350 with less gas mileage (of course, still had lots more torque, something like 385 ft-lb).

It would be fun to have in one of our trucks, but I would either go with a vortec or build it up if you want a really fast truck. BTW, if you could get a vortec 454 ('96+) that should be a real screamer without modifying!

[tommie]

i don't know the power ratings on it either,

and i remember them being slow, (compared to earlier big blocks)

but this deal just didn't sound too bad, the engine is complete from throttle body and dist to oil pan, the trans is bolted to the engine still, has all the accessories, ac compressor, water pump, p/s pump, alt. and starter.

i will have to dig through some old magazines, i think i remember them putting a different cam in, and upping the HP #'s.

i just haven't found many other good deals.
never had a big block before, always had small blocks,
i was actually looking for a vortec 350, but haven't found one in my budget yet.

this is the best i ahve found.

checked on the painless harness in summit it is $261.95

or i could go with a carb and just get an HEI dist.

later
tommie
70 chevy short wide
01zx9r

[GoFaSSter]

The 454SS can be woken up quite easily. Therre are trucks out there turning 13.2-13.5 with the throttle body injection. These are streetable trucks that pass emmissions. Mine is in the low 14 second range. The guy who got beat by the Neon and turned a 16.x time must have had wheelspin issues or is just a bad driver. When mine was bone stock it was in the very low 15's. They are not incredible instock form, but they have tons of potential.

[Scott70Chevy]

GoFaSSter,
Just in case I get an opportunity at one some day, what mods does the TBI 454 need to wake it up?
Thanks.

[HvyChevy454]

mines a 91 but it was not an ss454 motor and it was rated at 235hp and 385ft lbs. w/ the tbi. but a bb is a great base to build a ground shaker of a motor. get rid of the tbi and every wire on he motor is gone. after an alum intake, carb, headers, and a cam the motor was desktop dyno'd at 298 @ 3500 and 512 ft lbs @2000. this month im gonna take it down to a chassis dyno to get real figures on it

[GoFaSSter]

The biggest thing you can do to the throttle body is clean up the TB casting ridges and put in an adjustable regulator. Raise the injectors slightly with a spacer and put some small custom air horns on it. Or a funnel type set-up like they have at turbo city. The catalytic convertor is the same one that was on a 350 and is a huge cork. There are quite a few things you can do. Big blocks are powerful, this one just needs a little help.

The guy who said they were tow truck motors is correct. If you change the intake (on a '90) and put in the Edelbrock cam it will come tolife quite quickly. I will be around and if you do buy it I would be more than happy to send computer friendly part numbers and such.

[superchevy]

I have a lot of experience with tbi systems.
Here's what I would do if I were you:
Take the complete tbi set-up (intake, computer, wiring, throttle body, etc) off the motor, and put it on eBay. 454 tbi set-ups bring a premium as lots of guys want the bigger 454 throttle bodies to put on their hot small blocks.
Take the money you get from that sale and buy a good used aftermarket intake and a new hydraulic cam to match what you want to do with the motor. Then take that $260 you would spend on the wiring harness and get you an Edelbrock 750 cfm with electric choke and a set of headers.
Depending on the cam, you should have a great running motor that will put out some serious horsepower and torque.
Dump the tbi - I know it sounds cool to have an efi motor - but it will never run as strong as that carbed motor unless you spend a lot of money on mods, tuning, and burning proms - and you will run into unforseen headaches (wiring, fuel system, etc, etc) doing the install.
Trust me, it gets expensive real quick if you want to make real horsepower. (custom proms alone start at $300 and go up from there!)
My 2 cents and a lot of experience.
SC

[GoFaSSter]

You could always do your research on the net and burn your own proms. Carbs are really powerful and nice, but there are drivability issues. I know they need to be tuned and that is fine if you tune it and everything stays the same(ie. weather) My TBI is great it always starts well and idles smooth and has a ton of power.

If you really want to get trick get an aftermarket computer from accell that is programmable on the fly. The cost of the computer and cables is about $1000 and you will be able to run a monster fueling program for the track and with the flip of a switch you can have a great street set-up.

I know that these trucks are simple and that is why we all like them and the carb and EFI debate will go on as long as the disc and drum brake arguement. I like the EFI and it has been worth it for me to educate myself about the systems.

[wnc mountain]

Go with the 454! You can always change it later, it is fun to play, as I am sure you could get most your money back out it the need came about.

[superchevy]

It's not a carb vs efi debate.
It's a carb vs TBI debate.
Read my sig - I have a modified tbi truck.
I know how expensive and what a pain in the ass it is to get these tbi trucks to make some power.
I'm not against efi, I'm against throwing a lot of money at a TBI system, and expecting it to make as much power as a similar carb motor.
It's just prohibitively expensive and difficult to do with a TBI.
As far as spending a grand on DFI, you'd spend more building a proper engine to take advantage of the dfi.
I'd take that $1000 for the aftermarket DFI and put a good set of heads on that same 454 carb motor and watch the dyno as some real power's being made.
As far as driveability issues. Out of the box, the Edelbrock carb on my Sprint starts, idles and performs well, and you don't have to teach yourself (or buy the equiptment) to burn proms and spend a $1000 to start tuning it.
Just say no to TBI, not efi.

[70 Jimmy]

If your comparing a SBC to a BBC, you've never owned a BBC. Sure, you may be starting out with similar numbers, but with a few above mentioned mods, you'll have more motor than most small blocks will ever be. Don't get me wrong, a small block can be respectable but if I had a choice, and you do, BBC!!!!

[GoFaSSter]

You can do some pretty amazing things with a TBI set-up. I do agree with yyou that DFI is better, but the supposed lowly TBI can be tweaked to get pretty decent power. On these trucks it is nice because you have the option of running whatever you are in the mood for. On my SS I am stuck with what I have if I want to pass emmissions in my area. I am sure you have had that feeling with your newer truck as well. Still the particualr truck I mentioned before running the 13.2s at the track is doing it on a Performance Resource chip that cost $110. No other mods to the computer. The rest was done by paying attention to the little details.

[superchevy]

13.2 with no real mods?
I tell you what, go to the 454SS homepage and tell all the members there who put heads, cam, intake, custom proms, etc to get in the 13's how you did it with just a chip and some details.
If you need the address, here it is:

http://www.454ss.com/cgi-bin/Tech1_f....pl?board=Time

I'm pro-efi, but tbi is not the way to go.
SC

[GoFaSSter]

I am sorry I did not spell it out well for you. I am talking about his fueling system. The computer has no real mods and the rest of the things are mechanical changes that were amde for performance. The point is that the TBI is not hampering them that much on this truck, and it runs smooth and well on a daily basis.
I am well aware of the 454ss site, I am a member and was an officer on that site. Thank you for the link.
All I am saying is that I think the TBI are not complete trash. Yes, another EFI set-up would be ideal. However, depending on what he wants to do with this truck the TBI set-up could be an inexpensive smooth daily driver. I realize you know a ton of info. about TBIs and obviously other systems, but I am in Kalifornia and have a smog controlled vehicle and have to do the best I can with the TBI and it is not all that horrific. I realize that does not apply here because 67-72s are exempt in most, if not all, areas. I would like to get one for that reason. Thanks for the chat and I will try and be more specific as to whether I am speaking of computer mods or motor mods in the future when we chat.
It has been interesting and I like that truck of yours. What kinds of times are you turning?

[superchevy]

What kind of times am I running?
Man, it's a work truck, and even with all the mods it's slowww.
That's why my friends call it "white thunder" instead of "white lightning" - because it's loud but not fast
SC

[GoFaSSter]

No matter what the picture in your avatar is nice. I love the 67-72s, but I love the 88-98 style as well. Work truck or not they are all cool.

[The Blue Pig]

Man, I read one of the reply's that said the SS 454's were slower than the 90 350's, god I sure as hell hope not. I have a 90 350 ex. cab short bed half ton duece-wheeler, bone stock (except for my ultra-performance K&N) and it feels like it must run an 18 or so. Superchevy, I was reading your sig, and with all those mods, some I which I had planned for my red pig, I am also curious as to what times you can turn. Actually, more importantly is, will it get out of its own way? Is it worth it to try and beef em up, or look for something else and ditch the 90. I got a 70, but thats another project. I cant remember, did your sig say you played with a bigger tb bore?

[superchevy]

I'm probaly close to a real 275hp and 350ft/lbs with all the mods I have.
The truck does run very well and is very snappy with the 3.42's. Run's out of air at about 4300 rpms though.
When I fry the current engine, I'm going back with a 383 stroker and a carb.
If you want to see some engine pics, go to:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4291867497

Later, SC