can a starter have a "dead zone" in it? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Scooter67 · 08-23-2005, 10:43 AM

Sometimes I'll turn the ignition key and nothing happens. Try it a couple more times and it hooks up and starts. Could the starter have a bad place or dead zone it it? Either that or bad ignition switch? Bad solenoid?

New batt, new alternator, wire connections to starter, etc are all great.

TOYOTA61384 · 08-23-2005, 11:28 AM

I've heard of that before, starters can have dead spots, where you just bump it a bit then if fires right up. Eventualy it will need to be replaced, assuming thats it.

Hope that helps?

cdowns · 08-23-2005, 11:49 AM

did you get it from stevan king???

mrein3 · 08-23-2005, 12:33 PM

The next time you "hit the dead spot" at home, roll under there and look at the flywheel where the starter gear SHOULD engage it. A long time ago I had a th350's ring gear with a few not perfect teeth in one spot. When I shut the car off with the starter aligned to hit there, I had to rotate the tired old engine a bit by hand to get the starter to engage.

**Palf70Step** · 08-23-2005, 12:44 PM

I've dealt with the dead spots both from bad teeth on a flywheel and burnt spots on the starter relay windings.

red71cheyenne · 08-23-2005, 12:52 PM

During this time you say "nothing happens", is the starter turning at all? Mine does that, and its a bad solenoid, I'm just too lazy to replace it. If your's does nothing though, that sounds more like the ignition switch is going out. Jeff.

Scooter67 · 08-23-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red71cheyenne

During this time you say "nothing happens", is the starter turning at all?

Nope, nothing happening at the starter or solenoid, but you can almost hear a click like the sound of a dead battery. Thing is, it's a new battery and all the connections everywhere are good and tight.

Guess I need to do some testing to isolate the problem. Might be cheaper than diagnosis by parts replacement, which is what I usually do.

73stepside · 08-23-2005, 04:35 PM

the armature on your starter is burnt causing the dead spot. it will last for a while but will need to be replaced

Green Machine · 08-23-2005, 05:52 PM

Worn out brushes can cause that too, next time it acts up, whack it with a hammer a few times, (backyard diagnostics), if that helps, it might be brushes. Really, you need to remove it and inspect it anyway if it's acting up, it's giving you fair warning now !!

bagged_gmc · 08-23-2005, 06:20 PM

Maybe faulty neutral safety switch?

**VetteVet** · 08-23-2005, 07:05 PM

You can have a dead spot in the starter but that won't prevent the solenoid from engaging. If you don't hear it clicking then you aren't getting 12 volts to the "S" terminal on the solenoid or there is an open circuit in the solenoid. The next time this happens you should jump the solenoid with a remote starter switch and see if the starter turns or the solenoid clicks. What you need to do is isolate the problem and jumping the starter solenoid may tell you whether it's the solenoid or the power source to it. Make sure you have the coil wire pulled so it won't start or have it in neutral or Park with the emergency brake on.
If the starter turns then chances are it's the ignitiion switch or the neutral start switch. Have you jiggled the gearshift lever when this happened and did it help?

walker · 08-23-2005, 09:06 PM

I'd say bad solenoid, with a small clicking but no RRrrr RRRrrr RRrrr. There is a big copper washer in there that makes contact and starts the starter motor. Over time the copper washer gets arc burns in it. If you are adveturous, or cheap like me, you can pull apart the solenoid and dress the washer down. Or, you can replace the solenoid, be sure to buy american here, as the cheap imports use a copper plated washer that goes bad fast. Napa sells a good quality solenoid, they also sell cheapies so ask about the different grades when you buy.

mrein3 · 08-23-2005, 10:15 PM

After reading your follow-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter67

Nope, nothing happening at the starter or solenoid, but you can almost hear a click like the sound of a dead battery. Thing is, it's a new battery and all the connections everywhere are good and tight.

I would say forget your flywheel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Machine

Worn out brushes can cause that too, next time it acts up, whack it with a hammer a few times, (backyard diagnostics), if that helps, it might be brushes. Really, you need to remove it and inspect it anyway if it's acting up, it's giving you fair warning now !!

Try what Green Machine said. Only don't hit the starter with the business end of the hammer. Hit it with the wooden handle of the hammer. If you use the business end you may break the nose cone off of the starter.

If the hammer trick works, your starter is drawing too many amps. Of course a shop with a load/amp draw tester will be able to tell you that too.

Scooter67 · 08-24-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Have you jiggled the gearshift lever when this happened and did it help?

Hasn't done it since I posted yesterday but I'll try that next time. Hopefully it'll keep working fine till the weekend and get a chance to check it out.

roger0080 · 08-24-2005, 11:42 PM

I have had a very similar problem also.

Occasionally it would be <turn key-nothing> <turn key-nothing> <turn key-nothing> <turn key - she starts>

BUT, I know on that starter I had tried to re-use the solenoids copper disk that makes the contact and figured it was from that.

I replaced the solenoid. It's "snappier" if that makes sense. Haven't driven the truck enough to say 100% that that was it though.

krue · 08-25-2005, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walker

I'd say bad solenoid, with a small clicking but no RRrrr RRRrrr RRrrr. There is a big copper washer in there that makes contact and starts the starter motor. Over time the copper washer gets arc burns in it. If you are adveturous, or cheap like me, you can pull apart the solenoid and dress the washer down. Or, you can replace the solenoid, be sure to buy american here, as the cheap imports use a copper plated washer that goes bad fast. Napa sells a good quality solenoid, they also sell cheapies so ask about the different grades when you buy.

If I remember correctly you can flip the washer around and use it that way instead of dressing it down.

briarpatch · 08-25-2005, 07:08 AM

Mine was doing the exact same thing for about two years. I replaced the starter and it hasn't happened since.

08-23-2005, 10:43 AM	#1
Scooter67 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: middle TN Posts: 87	can a starter have a "dead zone" in it? Sometimes I'll turn the ignition key and nothing happens. Try it a couple more times and it hooks up and starts. Could the starter have a bad place or dead zone it it? Either that or bad ignition switch? Bad solenoid? New batt, new alternator, wire connections to starter, etc are all great. __________________ Here's my '67 stepside www.truckwithaheart.com

08-23-2005, 11:49 AM	#3
cdowns Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: daytonabeach Posts: 22,956	did you get it from stevan king??? __________________ 71c-10 350/2004r/4:11 lowered3/4 longbed/dead by hurricane MEANING OF DEATH::::: SOMEBODY ELSE GETS YOUR STUFF DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK TAKE MY ADVISE;I DON'T USE IT ANYWAY

08-23-2005, 12:33 PM	#4
mrein3 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Center City, MN, USA Posts: 3,254	The next time you "hit the dead spot" at home, roll under there and look at the flywheel where the starter gear SHOULD engage it. A long time ago I had a th350's ring gear with a few not perfect teeth in one spot. When I shut the car off with the starter aligned to hit there, I had to rotate the tired old engine a bit by hand to get the starter to engage. __________________ '70 cab, '71 chassis, 383, TH350, NP205. '71 Malibu convertible '72 Malibu hard top Center City, MN

08-23-2005, 12:44 PM	#5
Palf70Step State of Confusion! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gulfport, MS USA Posts: 47,249	I've dealt with the dead spots both from bad teeth on a flywheel and burnt spots on the starter relay windings. __________________ Bill 1970 Chevy Custom/10 LWB Fleetside 2010 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner SR5 Double Cab - DD Member of Louisiana Classic Truck Club (LCTC) Bill's Gallery Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift. Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God!

08-23-2005, 12:52 PM	#6
red71cheyenne Back in the sticks Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Fordland, MO Posts: 3,188	During this time you say "nothing happens", is the starter turning at all? Mine does that, and its a bad solenoid, I'm just too lazy to replace it. If your's does nothing though, that sounds more like the ignition switch is going out. Jeff. __________________ 1971 Cheyenne C-10 w/700R4 and Tuned Port Injection 1969 K5 Blazer w/Tuned Port 2010 2SS/RS Flaming Orange Camaro 2011 K1500 Suburban 2014 K1500 Pickup 2008 Nissan Altima? The wifes' hoopty

08-23-2005, 11:28 AM	#2
TOYOTA61384 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Fort Collins CO Posts: 71	I've heard of that before, starters can have dead spots, where you just bump it a bit then if fires right up. Eventualy it will need to be replaced, assuming thats it. Hope that helps?

08-23-2005, 04:35 PM	#8
73stepside Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Moore OK 73160 Posts: 974	the armature on your starter is burnt causing the dead spot. it will last for a while but will need to be replaced __________________ 04 GMC Sierra RCSS 70 CST LWB 04 HD Sportster 1200 Custom

08-23-2005, 05:52 PM	#9
Green Machine Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Estherville, Iowa Posts: 3,371	Worn out brushes can cause that too, next time it acts up, whack it with a hammer a few times, (backyard diagnostics), if that helps, it might be brushes. Really, you need to remove it and inspect it anyway if it's acting up, it's giving you fair warning now !! __________________ 1968 C10 307 3spd Long Fleet ------ http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=201103 1970 C10 305 Super T10 Long Fleet --- http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=202285 1971 C20 383 TH350 Dana Posi ----- http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=206894 2001 GMC Sierra 1500 C3 6.0

08-23-2005, 06:20 PM	#10
bagged_gmc Shaved Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Vernon, Tx Posts: 115	Maybe faulty neutral safety switch? __________________ 1969

08-23-2005, 07:05 PM	#11
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,719	You can have a dead spot in the starter but that won't prevent the solenoid from engaging. If you don't hear it clicking then you aren't getting 12 volts to the "S" terminal on the solenoid or there is an open circuit in the solenoid. The next time this happens you should jump the solenoid with a remote starter switch and see if the starter turns or the solenoid clicks. What you need to do is isolate the problem and jumping the starter solenoid may tell you whether it's the solenoid or the power source to it. Make sure you have the coil wire pulled so it won't start or have it in neutral or Park with the emergency brake on. If the starter turns then chances are it's the ignitiion switch or the neutral start switch. Have you jiggled the gearshift lever when this happened and did it help? __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.

08-23-2005, 09:06 PM	#12
walker Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: north of Phx AZ about 30 miles Posts: 698	I'd say bad solenoid, with a small clicking but no RRrrr RRRrrr RRrrr. There is a big copper washer in there that makes contact and starts the starter motor. Over time the copper washer gets arc burns in it. If you are adveturous, or cheap like me, you can pull apart the solenoid and dress the washer down. Or, you can replace the solenoid, be sure to buy american here, as the cheap imports use a copper plated washer that goes bad fast. Napa sells a good quality solenoid, they also sell cheapies so ask about the different grades when you buy. __________________ Andy,Phx AZ '67 C-10 (Ahhh, done at last. Well there is that disk front end I want to put in and...) "23 C-Cab-sold '48 Ford 8N tractor(still working) '67 Scout(Now on the road) '70 MG B.-sold

08-24-2005, 11:42 PM	#15
roger0080 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Carver County, Minnesota, USA Posts: 626	I have had a very similar problem also. Occasionally it would be <turn key-nothing> <turn key-nothing> <turn key-nothing> <turn key - she starts> BUT, I know on that starter I had tried to re-use the solenoids copper disk that makes the contact and figured it was from that. I replaced the solenoid. It's "snappier" if that makes sense. Haven't driven the truck enough to say 100% that that was it though. __________________ 72 Chev C-10 90% restored (former AZ truck) ... 71 Chev K-20 Cheyenne my vacation crusier... 72 Chev C-10 Now retired and striped after many faithful miles... 72 GMC 1500 Retired to the junk yard after bought new in '71...

08-25-2005, 07:08 AM	#17
briarpatch Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Beauregard, AL Posts: 64	Mine was doing the exact same thing for about two years. I replaced the starter and it hasn't happened since. __________________ ------------------------------------- Tim '67 C/10, '04 Tahoe -------------------------------------



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