fluids/oils/gear lube

[shelby987]

Just bought a 3/4t 4x4 and it seems that the past of the truck reads like a who's who of poor upkeep.....so just to be safe I have a complete tune up scheduled for this weekend, this will include (and please feel free to add anything I may have missed).

-Oil flush/change and the addition of restore to the oil(been seeing a little bit of blow by on hard upshifts)

-gear lube change on the front and rear axles (any recommendations on specific fluids? I hear mobil 1 is the way to go, but I am a big castrol fan, do they make anything?).

-transfer case fluid and manual transmission fluid with the addition of lucas oil stabalizer

-bleed brakes and possibly replace shoes and turn drums (all four corners w/manual brakes.....can use all the help I can get )

-The coolant looks new, and I am planning on putting in a new engine in the next couple of months, so I will likely just top off the radiator, and add an overflow bottle).

-Pull plugs and replace plugs/wires as needed

-carb was recently rebuilt, so it will receive no work.

-Fuel/air/oil filter replacement (fram wherever possible!)

anything else???? I have heard and seen with older vehicles, its best to stay away from synthetics (seals suddenly become not as leak proof as they once were) so I will likely not be using any of this, any suggestions appreciated, this is my first 4x4, so I can use any advice you got!

oh, and also, can anyone give me quantities that I will need of specific fluids....how much does the transfer case, transmission, axles, engine hold.

250 I6, 3 on the tree, dana 60/dana 44hd

Thanks

[72str8flush]

2 Quarts of Gear Lube for the Rearend should do ya. I used 80/90 on mine a month or so ago. If it hasn't been changed in an eternity be prepared for the worst smell of your life when you crack it open.

[MrC1]

Sounds like you're on the right track to at least prevent more wear problems. How about p/s fluid and brake fluid?

Personally I would steer away from Fram oil filters. Their filter media is good, just not their oil filter design, especially the drain-back valve and endcap. I'm sure you've heard many stories of ruined engines (they're floating around everywhere), but I've had my own experiences and they're not good. I stick with Powerflo filters, which are just cheaply-packaged Puralator Pure Ones. Quality construction and less than $4 each, sometimes even $2.99.

Lastly, why do much at all to the engine if you're just pulling it in a few months?

[shelby987]

fram is what I have always used, have yet to have a problem with my 130,000 mile olds and I stick with what works.....

secondly, I guess i didn't mention, i will be bleeding the brakes when I install new shoes, so I will just top off as necessary.....i am sure I will have to bleed out all of the old fluid until I get good, clean red to pour out.

lastly, I will be doing a very basic tune-up on the engine because this is a driver first and foremost, I plan on putting a decent amount of miles on her......and I have never been a big fan of sitting on the side of the road with the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing I saved a couple of bucks on a tune-up.....plus, if something happens to the new engine in a couple of years, I will always have a good running backup waiting.....what can I say, I'm a boyscout.....always prepared!

[truckdude239]

don't use an fram oil fliter! i had one in my old truck an (FOrd) and the filter come apart in and i ended up blewing the engine and of course fram will not covor to fix your engine. was the badest day of my life but hey thanks fram because now i own an classic chevy lol

[chickenwing]

I agree Fram oil filters suck. Napa Gold filters for me. I'd probably not do the motor flush thing unless you plan on R&R motor very soon. Had a bad experiance with it on a 74 Monte Carlo. Had an ok running motor. Ended up with a smoking p.o.s...

Sound like ya got everything nailed down. A tune-up is a tune-up. Congrats on your new truck. Hope she turns into everything you want.

[mplex2000]

Wix filters are some of the best, STP is a close second. The more expensive ones are about the same as these (Bosch, Mobil 1, Napa Gold, etc). Fram is definitely the worst filter available. Fewer pleats, less flow and poor construction.

[shelby987]

ok, ok, so I will look into another brand of oil filter.....can I still use the fram air filter (partial to the orange.....accents my block nicely!).

Does anyone have recommendations for gear lube, I got that 80w-90 is the best, does this go into the transfer case, and differentials? Any specific brands?
What about the transmission, is there a specific grade and brand that people would recommend for a 4x4 that will see a good amount of work?
As mentioned above, I have always been partial to Lucas oil addatives....can I still put these into my axles, transfercase, and transmission, or are those as bad as fram?
Thanks for any and all input.....oh yeah, before I forget, what are the torque specs and sequence for the differential covers?

[krue]

I have seen a test on lucas oil additives that show it foaming pretty bad, but I have no personal experience with it. Glad to see you've seen the light on Fram oil filters. I've never heard anything negative about their air filters.

[70rs/ss]

I try to use Royal Purple or any of the other quality synthetics as they will increase you service intervals by double or more which offsets the extra cost for the synthetics. I have used mobile one, but royal purple, amsoil, etc are better products IMO. Good luck, and the list looks complete.

[truckdude239]

i use pureator

[Longhorn Man]

Another vote for fram sucks.
Napa gold are the best for the $$....just a repackaged WIX filter.
There air filter is pretty OK though. The K&N filters suck though, don't fall for the hype.
For the trans and diffs....I'd recomend synthetic.
For the engine, i would not recomend synthetic...not for the leaks ppl claim it creates (which is not true) But becouse your engine is probably already worn a bit... if not quite a bit, and also, with a carb...even a perfectly tuned carb, there is quite a bit of wash down which contaminates the oil which requires the normal drain intervals which would get expensive fast. The oil would still do the engine some good... but not nearly as good as it is in a late model rig. Plus, the blow by...that is just proof that your motor is gettin tired.
Skip the flush. That is bad news for your engine. If you want to flush it, then chainge the oil every week for a couple months. Flush it this way instead of dumping solvent in there. Remember solvent eats oil... which you NEED in your motor. When you drain the oil, not all of the oil (or solvent in this case) comes out. So then you are running around for another 3000 miles with the solvent breaking down your oil.
I honestly think the gov should stop these juffy lube type buisnesses from advertising the flush the way they do. All it is is a fast buck for them, and screwing the consumer. May not damage right away....but just like the fram and K&N...it WILL cause more wear than it should.

As for the brakes.... great I dea on putting new brake fluid in it. This is overlooked just as bad as diff oil. I would NOT recomend turning the drums onless you absolutly need to. You'll discover that these drums are not made anymore, and are getting harder to find in good shape. No need to shave off more metal if it is not needed. (I know this to be true on the 2 wheel drive....look into it...better safe...)

[shelby987]

just to sum it all up, to make sure we are all in agreement
2 quarts of synthetic 80w-90 for the rear and front diff?
How many quarts for the transfer case?
Transmission fully synthetic 10w-30 or is that gear lube as well?
Engine, no flush, no fram, no synthetic........
will the shoes seat properly against the drums if I don't turn them? The PO claims that this was a farm truck with 41k original miles (have found body repair, and two small holes in the floor, but otherwise, the claim is feasible.....it is possible I will be looking at virgin.....umm...everything.....as mentioned above I should be expecting the worst smelling 35 year old gear lube in the world!

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by shelby987

...2 quarts of synthetic 80w-90 for the rear and front diff?
How many quarts for the transfer case?

Each diff probably holds just over 2 qts. The xfer case holds shy of 3 qts. Makes 5 qts a perfect buy quantity. Helps if you have one of those hand pumps that fit the qt oil containers you purchase. Unless you have a drill operated pump. Whatever oil you buy, it must be GL-5 according to the Chevy Service Manual.

Transmission fully synthetic 10w-30 or is that gear lube as well?

Also GL-5 gear oil, SAE 80/90. I just filled mine. I think the SM465 took 4-5 qts. So, looks like 9 qts GL-5 gear oil, total. Maybe 10 at the most.

...will the shoes seat properly against the drums if I don't turn them?...

Take each drum to a brake shop. They will gladly caliper each drum to see if each is within the max dia spec cast into the drum. Within max: run 'em. At or beyond max: Does your budget allow for disc brake conversions? I'd wait till I had the drums calp'd before buying brake parts.

[Longhorn Man]

Take each drum to a brake shop. They will gladly caliper each drum to see if each is within the max dia spec cast into the drum. Within max: run 'em. At or beyond max: Does your budget allow for disc brake conversions? I'd wait till I had the drums calp'd before buying brake parts.

Good call.
As for the shoes seating on unturned drums, if you have real bad gouges...like rivits diggin in, you're screwed. But light scoring or a wavy surface is nothing to worry about. (if thick enough...I'd even go a little beyond max wear...but not much) If the surface looks real shiney... like a mirror, then scuffing it with some sand paper or a die grinder would be a good idea. otherwise they will probably squeal, but still stop you fine.

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by shelby987

...what are the torque specs and sequence for the differential covers?

No specific torque sequences, but criss-cross nonetheless.
Carrier cover: 35 ft lbs for the D60. 23 ft lbs for the D44.
Filler plugs: 10 ft lbs for the D60. 18 ft lbs for the D44. Yes, less for the D60. This is from my Chevy Svc Manual for a '71.

BTW, synthetic oil in the diffs, tranny, & tranfer will save you some gas driving from cold, Winter starts in Michigan. The synthetic flows much better than dino oil in extreme cold.

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

...You'll discover that these drums are not made anymore, and are getting harder to find in good shape....

Is this true for the rear D60 Shelby has? D60s are common and were used as rear axles till not to long ago. I'd have thought that one could still source drums for a D60.

[chickenwing]

Bought mine at a local heavy truck brake supply distributer. (Capital Clutch and Brake) They were a lot cheaper than the parts houses. IIRC, under $60 a piece! They had the brake cylinders too. I'll try to bring my receipt box to work and verify tomarrow.

[chevyfarmer]

Good advice.. I want to question the Lucas additive to the manual transmission though. I have had good luck with it in diff's and t cases, but last week I added it to a manual transmission (1 quart Lucas to 2quarts 80/90w). With the dropping temps here in Michigan, it is VERY difficult to shift it @ 35 degrees in the morning when the tranny is cold. Once the transmission is warmed up (5-10 minutes of operation) it shifts fine. Anyone else experience this or have any input??

I am probably going to drain it out and go back to just 80-90 because I cant imagine what it would shift like when it is zero outside.

[Longhorn Man]

ok, i was not sure ont he drum thing. I thought the dana had the same brakes bolted onto the rear end.
So ignore my do not turn the drums comment. Turning them is a great idea when you replace the shoes.

[shelby987]

chevyfarmer, where in owosso are you?
Also, if you use the lucas additive, are you using that with full synthetic or regular oil??
Also, went to the parts store yesterday, do you have to buy 80/90 in quart only containers? I thought there might be gallon sizes that I could buy??
Where should I go to find royal purple?

[4x4Poet]

Originally Posted by 4x4Poet

...according to the Chevy Service Manual.
Also GL-5 gear oil, SAE 80/90. I just filled mine. I think the SM465 took 4-5 qts....

When I posted this above, I was actually looking at a Chevy Service Manual for a 1971 truck. The Svc Manual called for GL-5 for each entry for the diffs, transfer case, and manual trannies. I looked at each entry because I was hoping to see capacities, as well. Well, GL-5 is correct for the diffs and the transfer case, but I'm no longer sure about manual trannies like the SM465 because of this link:
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm465.htm

Read the little gray box at the bottom of the page:

*When refilling your SM465 with gear oil, choose a GL-4 rated oil instead of GL-5. The latter has a higher sulphur content that is mildly corrosive to the bronze alloy synchros of the this and many other transmissions that do not have composite synchronizers. StaLube and RedLine are brands to look for, among others.

We recommend that you select a conventional lubricant or a para-synthetic in lieu of the full synthetics.*


I feintly remember reading about favoring GL-4 over Gl-5 for bronze synchros on another forum, but it didn't register at the time. Interesting conflict between a large transmission parts & adapter supplier and GM's own Svc Manual. Also interesting that Novak mentions Redline. I usually use Redline MT90 for my manual trannies because it is synthetic and Redline claims that MT90 has *the appropriate coefficient of friction for most manual transmission synchronizers (many gear oils, engine oils, and ATFs are too slippery for proper synchro engagement)*. I've found MT90 works quite well in Montana's freezing temps. The synchros work seamlessly in the two trannies I've used MT90 in.

Redline MT90

But its then wierd that Novak also recommends conventional oil in SM465s. Whatever.

1. Anyone else heard of this claim that GL-5 gear oil's higher sulfer content can be *mildly corrosive to the bronze alloy synchros* of SM465s and other trannies with bronze alloy synchros?
2. Is the sulfer content in GL-5 synthetics less than in GL-5 conventional oils to make this a moot point if one uses synthetic?
3. Should all our manual trannies with bronze sychros have GL-4 gear oil?
4. I Just put Amsoil GL-5 80/90 in the third manual tranny I have. Expensive mistake?

[70rs/ss]

Originally Posted by shelby987

chevyfarmer, where in owosso are you?
Also, if you use the lucas additive, are you using that with full synthetic or regular oil??
Also, went to the parts store yesterday, do you have to buy 80/90 in quart only containers? I thought there might be gallon sizes that I could buy??
Where should I go to find royal purple?

NAPA Sells it, but with all of the fluids you are going to buy, I'd use Summit or Jegs as you will save by not paying taxes.

mike

[chevyfarmer]

I am north east of Owosso. Are you familiar with the town? Anyway, I am running 80/90W regular oil. I dont think you are suppose to use the Lucas with synthetic, but I am not sure. I have used the Royal Purple synthetic and the only thing that I did not like was the price.

[71-longbed]

thanks for the tip longhorn man !!!!

my brakes have been sqeekin and squeling for awhile now ...
I popped the drums off and scuffed up the inside alittle with sandpaper ....NO MORE NOISE .... frickin great ....THANKS