Automatic to Standard swap?

[Russell]

Anyone here done a swap from an auto (TH400) to a standard (SM465) before?

Got pics, or any advice with regards to the swap?

I'm planning on leaving the automatic column in for now, I'll put a standard column in later. Clutch pedals will be from a 76 3/4 ton, but I don't have any linkages or anything yet (planning on going with a mechanical clutch for now)

I already know about the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, etc, and I know how the linkage goes together, but I need advice on how to install the pedals into the truck, and how I should go about installing a removeable high hump into my cab (currently a un-removeable low hump)

[beaterC10]

I haven't done the exact swap you are talking about, but to change the pedals you will need to drop the steering column and brake booster to get access to the pedals. The pedal assy comes out and goes in with a minor wrestling match. On mine, I was able to re-route the auto neutral safety switch wiring to work with the clutch pedal neutral safety switch.

[Russell]

I plan on taking the booster off, and putting hydroboost in, so that isn't a problem, and the column comes out easily too

Just worried about how I am gonna get the clutch pedals in there, lol Looks like a pretty challenging job...

Same with figuring out how to drill the hole in the cab later on for the pushrod. I guess, take a LOT of pics of the parts truck...

[AirMale]

I think you will regret it. I had the manual 4speed and it was $hit. I couldn't wait to put the t-400 in. Not trying to burst your bubble...just giving you my personal opinion.

[Russell]

I've driven both My 80 was running the TH400 prior to tearing it down for the 4x4 conversion, and it wasn't bad, but I never liked how the govenor / vac modulator worked on that truck. Shifted it at 3400 rpm, no matter what, and becuase of that, when you floored it, it'd kick down to first for a total of half a second before it shifted up again.

My 74 half ton had a 465 in it, and after I got used to shifting it, I actually really liked that transmission. Nice having control of what gear you are in, and downshifting was always a real nice bonus

Basically, I scored this stuff at a real good price, 75 bucks for a 32 spline SM465 in need of new shift forks, married to a 32 spline 205 in need of a front output seal, with both driveshafts, and the frame mount, and I wanted to convert to a standard transmission anyways. So I'm gonna replace the top (shift forks are installed in the top of the tranny, which is easily removed) change the front seal, and run the 265/205 combo until I have enough money saved up to buy an NV4500, and the driveshafts needed to run it with the divorced 205 transfercase I have.

I appreciate the input though

[Captkaos]

The pedal assembly come out alot easier then you think. There are 6 bolts on the firewall and a couple under the dash. From there it drops out (in addition to the stuff listed above) I swapped the clutch out of a truck for a spare and put the auto back in. If you have all the components with the same donors it isn't that hard. You do need the Z-bracket from the donor, so don't forget it.

Looks like this:
http://www.captkaoscustoms.com/images/clutchbrkt.jpg

[Russell]

Oh right, I remember that thing...

I wonder how I'll get that off the frame of the donor truck at the junkyard...

[Captkaos]

Big hammer and a big chisel. Otherwise, Blue torch it.

[wedgemon]

Originally Posted by Russell

Oh right, I remember that thing...

I wonder how I'll get that off the frame of the donor truck at the junkyard...

Z-Bar/Bellcrank comes of pretty easy. I believe it's a 5/8 wrench inside the mounting points which turns the pivot ball/screw - you'll want those. One on frame and one on block.

The problem for you may be the frame mounting tang. Chisel or torch, as suggested. Or, consider a hydraulic clutch.

Good luck.
- Dave

[DirtyLarry]

I did this same swap to my 1978 K10 about 7 years ago and never regretted it especially for wheeling in the mountains. The only difference is I went from a TH350 to a SM365. Mine was real easy to swap as I had a complete donor truck to pirate parts from….the catch was the donor truck had to be converted back to an automatic to resell. I was living in Detroit at the time and my buddy back in CO found a solid 1976 K10 with a SM465/NP205 for under $900. We bought it drug it out to Detroit and another buddy and I did the swap then turned it for $2000. A solid CO rust free SWB 4x4 truck in road salt ridden MI is worth some money. So this project and all of the new parts including the Centerforce clutch cost zero…zip…nothing. Sorry, no pics as this was before digital cameras were affordable.

Here is the recipe….

- Change the trans hump from the auto to a manual as that will guarantee to place the hole in the right spot. My trans hump bolted off although some are spot-welded to the floor.

- There was already a template in the floor of my truck for the manual clutch linkage from the pedal to the z-bar. Just had to use a 2” hole saw

- Swapped the complete pedal assembly from truck to truck. The standard stuff went into mine and the auto stuff went into the 1976 K10.

- The biggest pain in the azz was converting the trans cross member. The manual trans cross member requires bolts on the top of the frame as well as the bottom. Automatic trucks only have holes in the bottom of the frame so I bought an 8” long drill bit and ran it through the bottom holes in order to drill holes in the top of the frame. The long drill bit helped center the new holes with the holes in the bottom of the frame.

- We could not find a tilt column for a manual trans truck to use in mine (the donor had a non-tilt) so we bought an automatic column to place back in the donor truck and I kept my original automatic column in mine with the newly planted SM465. I ended up mounting my tack on the auto shifter stub so it is hardly noticeable that it is actually an auto column.

- I by passed the neutral safety switch all together as I like to be able to start my rig in gear. Sometimes that is handy when wheeling.

- The front drive shaft was swapped from truck to truck and of course the one I got from the donor truck was wasted while my auto front shaft was freshly rebuilt....go figure. I actually cannot remember what I did with the rear shaft but donor truck worked ok without mods but since my 1978 K10 has a 14FF I had to have it reworked. I cannot remember if I had it shortened or lengthen though.

- I bought a new SM465 chrome shifter, clutch, pressure plate, release bearing, clutch pedal linkage, clutch pedal bushing, etc but for the most part everything was a direct swap from truck to truck.

You can barely tell by this picture that this truck was ever an automatic. The tach mounted on the shifter nub hides it well. You couldn’t tell the donor truck was ever a manual when I was through either. The second picture is from a couple years ago when I had the exhaust redone after a Gen VI 454HO install but you can see what the manual trans cross members look like. Good luck and PM me if you need more info.

[AspecialZ]

hmmm....I went the other way and put in an automatic brake pedal, brake booster etc. I liked the 3 speed the truck came with, but not right for a heavy duty application.

[hobbz]

at one point my truck was a stick. but the po swapped out the disel/standard to a 350/350.
they left the standard pedals in it, that is the only way i knew it was a stick at one time.

[SSC's76]

A Transgo Stage 2 Kit would solve the TH400's problems but I guess this would do it too

[Russell]

TH400 supposively already has a shift kit in it.

Honestly, it really wasn't half bad of a tranny. Definitely the best automatic I've ever driven by far. Its just that how it stands right now, I'll have my truck on the road faster, and cheaper if I put this married 465/205 combo.

Later on in the future, I'll decide if I want to go with an NV4500, or if I want to go with a 4l80e, either would be a great transmission. I personally have always liked standard transmission vehicles, so thats another reason to go for it That low gear is just too sweet when pulling someone outta the ditch

[Zoomad75]

As the helper to Dirty Larry's auto to stick and stick to auto swap fest I can provide some addtional insight on the conversion.

#1. If you are doing the swap without a lift, don't try to install the heavy 465 with the t/case bolted to it. It's too akward. By itself it can be lifted fairly easily with a floor jack.

#2. When Installing the t/case (in our case the heavy 205) be careful not to booger up the seal or you will be removing the tcase later...Two floorjacks and various bits of 2x4's used to lift the tcase. A floor style tranny jack would have been ideal, but was not available to us. Besides, I don't think it would have lifted high enough for Larry's lifted truck.

#3. Plan ahead. This paid off big time. We had both trans/tcase assemblies out and back in again in a weekend. Larry had done some prep work beforehand for the brackets and pedal assemblies. There were still little items on both to finish after the swap, but the hard work was over. Having all the parts we needed there was a godsend. No wasted time running to the boneyard or parts store for the missing doodad.

#4. Get help. 1 guy can do it, but I don't know how one person can lift/hold/guide a sm465 on a floor jack into position on the bellhousing and splined up to the clutch. Plus I'd hate to see what happens to body parts when a 465 falls off the jack from even 1 foot high. Two people can speed the process along, besides the obvious outlet to complain too when something goes wrong.

Overall it is not that hard of a project. Just labor intensive. Like larry said, most of the holes are there already for the brackets and template is there for the firewall. It was a major help to have the doner truck there for comparisons, but a digital camera could make up for not having the doner on site. Take your time!

[Russell]

Sounds good guys

I'm gonna tackle most of the small stuff tommorow. Put in the pedals, get the hydro clutch stuff installed, get the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, and bellhousing on, so when it comes time to install the actually tranny / t-case, that is all I have to do.

I've gotta cut my floor up too, so I can install a removeable high hump into the truck

[Russell]

Well, I tackled this swap full force today -- Dropped the TH400, bolted on the flywheel / pressure plate / bellhousing so I could test the clutch, installed the pedals, and the hydraulic clutch. Also scrapped the vac booster in favour of a hydro booster.

So, all that is left now is to install a fresh pilot bushing, new throwout bearing etc, then cut out my floor to install a removeable high hump, swap tops off the tranny, install the tranny, then install the transfercase after replacing the front seal, and go from there

Before I can move the truck, I need to install new rear brake lines, and finish my speed density swap for the TPI, install a set of shocks, then it'll actually be close enough that I could probally put insurance on the truck and start driving it It'll need some interior / electrical work, along with a heck of a lot of tuning, but it'll be nice to drive my baby again!

[Captkaos]

Sweet progress.