E85 or alternative???

[red71cheyenne]

Has anyone tried using E85? Is there a conversion required for our V8's to run on it? I know its not that much less price wise than regular gas, but if we could lower our dependence on oil, I'm all for it. Let us know what alternatives you have used for your truck.

[Nelson]

Heard the other day that the Ethanol in E85 will eat away fibreglass gas tanks. Correct me if I am wrong.

[71swb4x4]

You will need to convert to stainless steel anywhere the E85 will touch, gas tank, fuel lines, carb, etc. It supposedly will eat away at other metals.

[oscareltemblo]

So will it eat thru aluminum heads ?

[Green Machine]

Mainly you would need increase the carb jet sizes quite a bit, like 20 percent or so to get a correct mix and then you will lose some mpg. I don't think ethanol solves any energy problem, look at all the energy inputs, tractor fuel, grain drying fuel, etc and guess what the use to cook all of the water out of the mix - natural gas !!!???.

[71swb4x4]

Originally Posted by oscareltemblo

So will it eat thru aluminum heads ?

I would think it would get burned before it would have a chance to cause problems with the heads.

Originally Posted by Green Machine

I don't think ethanol solves any energy problem, look at all the energy inputs, tractor fuel, grain drying fuel, etc and guess what the use to cook all of the water out of the mix - natural gas !!!???.

It is true that when ethanol first came out it took more energy to produce it than it provided. But, the tables have since turned, and ethanol now produces more energy than it consumes.

[Chevrolet4x4s]

Isnt Methonal the really destructive alcohol not ethonal?If it was so corrosive wouldnt the beer cans dissolve and run out into the floor of the store?I have run 10% ethonal with no adverse affects to my knowledge.
Hope this helps
Shane

[shifty]

please see this page for all the info you require:
http://www.e85fuel.com/index.php

this topic has come up a few times in the general discussion forum. check here to see if your engine is compatible:

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php

some people can't even use it.

please read this FAQ to answer almost every question imaginable about E85:

http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/faq.php

Those three links should hook you up w/everything you need to know. Expect to save only ~10-20% on E85 costwise. if your engine supports it now, you could do it. if not, i understand it will eat the seals out of your engine or something if you put it in a non-compatible vehicle? this was something someone said in the thread i started a few months ago. they may have more info at the sites above.

if you live in South Carolina, there are dozens of places to get it - but most states have only private (military bases etc.) places to buy it and the general public can't get it in those states. it still hasn't caught on yet, so supply is limited.

[jimmydean]

The article I read about the conversion just said you need to make sure your rubber fuel lines are a quality grade and use a metal or glass fuel filter.

Cut a section of hose and soak it in e85 for about 2 weeks. If it doesn't get hard and brittle, your good to go. There is a card lock station down the street that had e85 and bio for less than gas at Chevron.

When I relocate my tank, I am running e85 approved lines in hopes of converting. Ever bit helps.

[red71cheyenne]

Hmm, I don't know. All that info on that page, seems to say that if your vehicle wasn't originally designed to handle it, its illegal to convert it due to emissions. It doesn't really say anything about what has to be done to convert. And compliant vehicles only go back to 2002. I'd like to know more about what it will do to valve seats and seals in the engine. Not to mention, you were right shifty, there are only a few stations around and most are on military installations. I'd have to drive an hour to find a station near me. If I weren't military, I wouldn't be able to use it.

Wonder what it actually costs per gallon to produce?

[shifty]

PS - i heard another story that if you've been running regular gas and then you run a tank of E85, something will gum up or some crap like that - again - don't know how valid that is!

[Fred T]

One other problem is supply. Right now the government is forcing the use of ethanol in gasoline, and there is a shortage of ethanol in certain areas. They are building plants all over the plains to produce it, but there will be a supply problem for a while. Adding to that is a storage problem, it can't be stored in conventional tanks due to the corrosion issue, so new facilities have to be built for storage.

Unless you have a newer vehicle that is completely computer controlled, switching back and forth on fuel types is a pain. I would not convert an older vehicle at this time. In another year or two, it might be worth looking into.

[mburgert]

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

I would think it would get burned before it would have a chance to cause problems with the heads.




It is true that when ethanol first came out it took more energy to produce it than it provided. But, the tables have since turned, and ethanol now produces more energy than it consumes.

That all depends on who is doing the research i am still for it, but since they are using corn you have to take into account all the fuel for Nitrogen, pumping irrigation water, and transfer to the ethanol plant i dont see anyway that there is a net increase in energy. With the cost of corn being so low i dont mind them using corn for ethanol production. In the future they will start using perrenial grasses such as switchgrass that only have to be planted once (they grow every year) and dont require irrigation, or much fertilizer then they will likey have a net energy increase. E85 was really a good deal until the gas companies bought it and made it the same price as regular gas because it was cutting into their business. There were alot of farmers who also could buy straight ethanal from the ethanol plant that was suppost to be used in their state of the art irrigation motors for like 1 dollar a gallon as lately as last fall and add 15% dino fuel and run it in their E85 equipped trucks, but now that straight ethanol is like $1.85 that scheme is over. Im sorry if i went off on an extreme tangent but i go to school at UNL for agronomy and i am full of useless info about stuff like this.

[gmcracing92]

there are like 5 or so ethanol plants up here in north dakota and there are plans to build a few more. there is 10% ethanol all over and many towns up here have at least 1 pump with e85

[red71cheyenne]

Originally Posted by mburgert

That all depends on who is doing the research i am still for it, but since they are using corn you have to take into account all the fuel for Nitrogen, pumping irrigation water, and transfer to the ethanol plant i dont see anyway that there is a net increase in energy. With the cost of corn being so low i dont mind them using corn for ethanol production. In the future they will start using perrenial grasses such as switchgrass that only have to be planted once (they grow every year) and dont require irrigation, or much fertilizer then they will likey have a net energy increase. E85 was really a good deal until the gas companies bought it and made it the same price as regular gas because it was cutting into their business. There were alot of farmers who also could buy straight ethanal from the ethanol plant that was suppost to be used in their state of the art irrigation motors for like 1 dollar a gallon as lately as last fall and add 15% dino fuel and run it in their E85 equipped trucks, but now that straight ethanol is like $1.85 that scheme is over. Im sorry if i went off on an extreme tangent but i go to school at UNL for agronomy and i am full of useless info about stuff like this.

But see, thats not useless info. Thats the kind of stuff I wanted to know about this stuff. What do you know about its effect on gasoline engines? Any effect on valve seats, engine seals? Or can you take it right out of the pump and burn it without any bad effects? Thanks for the info by the way.

[purple gas]

Funny,, when I was a teenage kid back in the 1970's I was intrested in alternative fuels, not only for cars, but industrial uses. Such as finding a way to use the crap that came out of pig barns and Feed Lots so it didn't stink up the neighborhood and contaminate the water. But back then those ideas and often me along with them were dismissed as " Hippy tree hugger pot head fantasies". Maybe I should have Ragged against the machine a little harder back then. I could really dig being the Bill Gates of alternative fuel technology right about now.

[mburgert]

Originally Posted by gmcracing92

there are like 5 or so ethanol plants up here in north dakota and there are plans to build a few more. there is 10% ethanol all over and many towns up here have at least 1 pump with e85

Ya i remember when it got to Lincoln last summer 1.80 a gallon, then the gas companies started buying all the E85 and by the end of the summer it was the same as regular. I dont know much of anything about what it takes to make an engine compatable with E85 i just know that all new vehicles should be equipped. Another random fact that i just remembered about our current ethanol production, for the USA to make all of the gas that we burn annually in vehicles it would take 97% of the nations cropland to grow the corn needed.

[torquepower]

Originally Posted by red71cheyenne

Hmm, I don't know. All that info on that page, seems to say that if your vehicle wasn't originally designed to handle it, its illegal to convert it due to emissions.....

Running ethanol reduces hydrocarbon emmisions over regular gas, NOx emissions increase a little. We have to have annual emmisions tests here, called AirCare, I've had to use a few tricks over the years to get some vehicles to pass, use ethanol, methylhydrate, turn back the timming, lean out the idle mixture, make it overheat.

[red71cheyenne]

Ya, we have the same tests down here in some counties and cities, but when I retire and return to MO, I won't have to worry about it then either. My farm is in the country and the nearest city that requires smog testing is 3 hours away.

Ya i remember when it got to Lincoln last summer 1.80 a gallon, then the gas companies started buying all the E85 and by the end of the summer it was the same as regular. I dont know much of anything about what it takes to make an engine compatable with E85 i just know that all new vehicles should be equipped.

Makes you wonder what the point is of trying to be a good guy when they do stuff like that tho.