Cylinder Head Opinions

[twoodson]

Hey guys I am in the market to upgrade to some better cylinder heads for my '87 Chevy SWB with a Jasper 350 TBI. The only ones I find are these http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...l%2D60859&x=33 I was wondering if you guys had any better recomendations.. thanx guys and have a happy new year.

[Billla]

Heads won't give a significant improvement without a cam swap - when you say "better" - what are you looking for?

[84slopwaggin]

What do you intend to use the setup for? Why did you choose aluminum heads over cast iron? If I'm not mistaken you'd have to get a new chip to make up for the improved air flow.

[twoodson]

I was looking for other options other than the edelbrock's cause that is all I could find but I am still looking. Right now it has the R/V Torker cam in it. If I need to perform a cam swap to make it worth it then I will. I plan on getting a chip custom burned (programmed) from Ed Wright at Fast Chip. I basically want to gain a few more horses out of the engine if I can. I currently have a 700R4 tranny hooked to a 10 bolt posi rear end with 3:73 gears. It performs pretty damn good. Tryin to stay from the Nitrous..lol

[crossy]

Idunno even edelbrocks website does not give any info on HP increases with these heads. it's been proven time and time agin that vortec heads give trucks power where they need it. ?????

[Billla]

I wouldn't look to a head swap for more HP; I would wait on the programming and then possibly look at a torque converter, headers, etc. If you're looking for 40+ more HP, then I would look at a cam and heads...again, changing heads without changing the cam is useless.

Originally Posted by twoodson

I was looking for other options other than the edelbrock's cause that is all I could find but I am still looking. Right now it has the R/V Torker cam in it. If I need to perform a cam swap to make it worth it then I will. I plan on getting a chip custom burned (programmed) from Ed Wright at Fast Chip. I basically want to gain a few more horses out of the engine if I can. I currently have a 700R4 tranny hooked to a 10 bolt posi rear end with 3:73 gears. It performs pretty damn good. Tryin to stay from the Nitrous..lol

[twoodson]

Hey guys I appreciate all the feedback. Currently I have the edelbrock tes headers with the AIR injection, catco catalytic converter with a magnaflow exhaust. I am going to get the chip from Ed Wright but he suggests to have everything you want done so he can program the chip to the setup. I heard about the vortec heads. Does anyone have any part numbers and also a suggested cam. Thanks guys for giving me this knowledge.

[chevyrestoguy]

Vortec heads have a different intake manifold bolt pattern. I believe that they eliminated the center intake manifold bolts and the remaining bolts are at a different angle. So- if you are going to go with Vortecs (excellent choice), then be sure to check if anybody makes a TBI manifold for that application. Changing heads WILL make a difference. They flow better, and Vortecs have the 64cc chambers, so compression and horsepower will increase. It is true that you will not see the full potential of these heads until you change out the awful cam your stock '87 motor has in it now. Just be careful not to go too big on the cam. Do not go past 218 deg of duration @.050 and less than 112 on the lobe center, or the manifold vacuum will go flakey and the MAP sensor signal will not be able to compensate, so the idle will constantly search up and down for the right vacuum signal.

I was going to build a TBI motor for my '83, and this what I was told by a fuel injection expert and also by the tech guy at Lunati Cams.
________
Toyota tf104 specifications

[Billla]

I'll respectfully disagree (just another opinion that an increase in flow will deliver more HP without a cam change. The only time this is true is when the cam is the limiting factor...and I doubt that the stock cam is exceeding what the stock heads can deliver. Stock heads typically don't run out of steam until about .400 lift, whereas aftermarket heads show significant increases to .600 and beyond. Unless the stock cam is beyond .450 lift, then I'll state my opinion that virtually no HP gain will be found with new heads with a stock cam under .450 lift.

The Vortecs flow pretty well, but top out unmodified at about .500 lift. Great for a street engine up to about 1.1 FWHP/CID but run out of steam beyond. A bit of investment in porting will really pay off; I'll post a picture if anyone's interested of Vortec-head 355 I just finished of how incredibly bad the port match was out of the box.

They do have a different intake bolt pattern, and you will need a reprogram for sure with any of these changes.

A change from a 76cc to 64cc head is about a 1.3 increase in CR...so be sure you know what you've got before just making this swap.

No disrespect intended, but I just see a lot of folks swapping parts they don't need to for the HP gains they want and the RPM range they want them in. Big bux spent for disappointing returns.

Originally Posted by chevyrestoguy

Vortec heads have a different intake manifold bolt pattern. I believe that they eliminated the center intake manifold bolts and the remaining bolts are at a different angle. So- if you are going to go with Vortecs (excellent choice), then be sure to check if anybody makes a TBI manifold for that application. Changing heads WILL make a difference. They flow better, and Vortecs have the 64cc chambers, so compression and horsepower will increase. It is true that you will not see the full potential of these heads until you change out the awful cam your stock '87 motor has in it now. Just be careful not to go too big on the cam. Do not go past 218 deg of duration @.050 and less than 112 on the lobe center, or the manifold vacuum will go flakey and the MAP sensor signal will not be able to compensate, so the idle will constantly search up and down for the right vacuum signal.

I was going to build a TBI motor for my '83, and this what I was told by a fuel injection expert and also by the tech guy at Lunati Cams.

[larry may]

Is a RV Torker cam considered stock? Twoodson mentioned the cam in his ride. How will them heads work out with this cam ?

[Billla]

Originally Posted by larry may

Is a RV Torker cam considered stock? Twoodson mentioned the cam in his ride. How will them heads work out with this cam ?

Completely my bad - I missed that.

I'm not sure what the "RV Torker" cam is - brand and specs, Twoodson?

[twoodson]

Hey guys this is just the dialog that I need. Be patient as I try to find out the specs of the R/V Torker cam. It was supposed to be a small upgrade from stock but nothing drastic according to Jasper. Oh yeah I heard about the manifold and gm performance makes a TBI manifold to go with the vorteck heads. Thanks guys and I appreciat it.

[piecesparts]

Scoggin- Dickey has a kit that they offer for the TBI or TPI world. This has Vortec heads and either the TBI or TPI intake to match. This thinking can be done by purchasing a good pair of used or new Vortec heads and then just get the intake manifold and the appropriate mounting bolts from them. Add in a set of 1.6 rocker arms from Comp Cams and there you go, at least a 50 HP if not more increase over the stock collection of goodies on your engine. I have a TPI motor that is on an engine stand that I did just that to and it looks like the clearances will work fine. I purchased the ehads from a Machine shop with the valves upgraded to better springs and angle ground for about $500.00. There was an article in Chevy High Performance on a change out like this and the motor went to 375 HP. That is respectable in this day and age, especially without a cam change.

[twoodson]

piecesparts, what about a cam change, do you have an suggestions such as brand name. I see chevyrestoguy gave me some cam specs not to exceed. You guys are a huge help. Let me start comparing some prices between used and new

[piecesparts]

Are you still running a stock computer with the TBI that you listed above? If so, then a cam change will affect your computer, unless you keep it under the spec boundaries of the computer's limits. This will require you to have the computer upgrded, and that can be done. This should be at the top of your thought patterna s you proceed.

Edelbrock advertises a chnge out of heads cam and intake to get to 450 HP in a TBI motor. After the install, you have to send them read outs of your motor's profile and they burn you a new chip. That may be what you need a "COMPLETE PACKAGE PLAN". That will be up to you.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by twoodson

Hey guys this is just the dialog that I need. Be patient as I try to find out the specs of the R/V Torker cam. It was supposed to be a small upgrade from stock but nothing drastic according to Jasper. Oh yeah I heard about the manifold and gm performance makes a TBI manifold to go with the vorteck heads. Thanks guys and I appreciat it.

No worries; lots of different experience here to leverage. GMPP P/N 12496821 on the manifold.

[Billla]

It's a good kit - but note that the ZZ4 springs are used which are limited to .525 lift (better than the .475 stock), meaning .492 max lift if you use the 1.6 rockers. The ZZ4 springs are not particularly well-respected; I've seen valve float as low as 5500 RPM on these...which may not be an issue on a truck that is likely limited to lower RPM due to the drivetrain.

I respectfully (again push back on 50 HP with just this upgrade - do you have a link to the article referenced? And you're noting that this was the gain on an otherwise stock engine (i.e. "no cam change")?

Originally Posted by piecesparts

Scoggin- Dickey has a kit that they offer for the TBI or TPI world. This has Vortec heads and either the TBI or TPI intake to match. This thinking can be done by purchasing a good pair of used or new Vortec heads and then just get the intake manifold and the appropriate mounting bolts from them. Add in a set of 1.6 rocker arms from Comp Cams and there you go, at least a 50 HP if not more increase over the stock collection of goodies on your engine. I have a TPI motor that is on an engine stand that I did just that to and it looks like the clearances will work fine. I purchased the ehads from a Machine shop with the valves upgraded to better springs and angle ground for about $500.00. There was an article in Chevy High Performance on a change out like this and the motor went to 375 HP. That is respectable in this day and age, especially without a cam change.

[Jonboy]

I agree with the Vortec heads. How much is the SDPC head/intake kit? Keep in mind the intake by itself retails around $300, and the head bolts are pretty pricy as well. I think their "worked" Vortec heads used to run around $600 or so, too. A kit sure would make things a lot easier, though. Do you already have the Jasper engine?

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

head bolts are pretty pricy as well.

??? - Vortecs use standard GEN I head bolts, nothing special. Best deal on the planet is the GMPP set P/N 12495499 - Summit sells these for ~$25/set!

[piecesparts]

For my TPI setup, I purchased the intake from Scoggin-Dickey and the heads from a friend of mine (at a machine shop), the bolts that I already had with the block worked for mounting the heads. The only bolts that I had to buy was the kit from Scoggin-Dickey for the mounting of the intake to the heads, this is important. I purchased my heads for $500.00 for the pair and the valve work was included. I believe that the intake was around $400.00 for the TPI unit, However they list the TBI intake (part #12496821) at $309.00. They also list the vortec heads (part #12558060) at $269.75 each.

[twoodson]

cool, yeah Jon the engine is already installed in the truck. I just thought that I would try and squeeze a few more horses out of it. Is there any specific camshaft that anyone recommends? Sounds like I would be leaning toward the vortec heads with the vortec tbi intake hopefully after the first of the year I will be able to purchase the parts. thanks guys.