header bolts wont stay tight - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

white68chevy · 11-07-2002, 07:05 PM

Does anybody knwo how to keep hooker headers tight? I have to tighten mine up about once a week. Thanks a lot.

ckhd · 11-07-2002, 07:13 PM

That's a very common problem. Are you talking about where they bolt to the head, or down at the collector? Both seem to back off like crazy.

Look at these bolts that Summit has. They have a groove in the head. You tighten the bolt, slip on the D shaped washer, put the c-clip on. The D shaped washer butts up against the header tube and keeps them from backing off.

I haven't used them, but I plan on it next time I have anything with headers!

bigjimzlll · 11-07-2002, 07:34 PM

ok...this is fixable...torque them down( as tight as a 7/16 wrench will go) run the motor until it reaches running temp...tighten them again....in 2 days do it again...then a week...then every 2 weeks..then once a month or so...its not that much work and it will work

*Piston* · 11-07-2002, 07:44 PM

ckhd, thats the system I'm using now.
Not that this will work for everyone but I know it works for me. I've swapped engines 2 times in this truck since I've had it and only once have I had to go in and replace the gaskets becuase the bolts got loose. They would get loose every couple of months and would have to retighten them. Till now.

Buy regular old Mr.Gasket header gaskets (white) then soak them in water for about 2 hours or so(until the fibers start to expand), bolt the headers on and since 6 of the bolts can only be tightened with a wrench, I just put a "healthy" turn on all the bolts instead of trying to torque them. Drive it for a few days, check all bolts. Do this for about 2 weeks then install the E-Clip system.

I've had this engine in for about 2 maybe 3 months and no problems. This is the first time i've used the E-Clips and they work very well. Very simple to install.

tom hand · 11-07-2002, 08:35 PM

The problem is the gasket. The bolts are not coming loose, the gasket is compressing when the header and the head expand when they heat up. Even if you get bolts that have a c-clip, if you pull it off you will find that the bolts are still loose. Paper gaskets are the worst. Back when I ran headers back in the stone age, I aways ran regular manifold gaskets, they seemed to do better. I sure they make much better gaskets now, and I'm sure some of these guys will tell you which ones are best.

adamls · 11-07-2002, 08:52 PM

I am with bigjimzlll. That is how I've always done it. Within about 6 months you will no lnoger have tot ighten them. Tom Hand is right, it is the gaskets contracting not the bolts loosening. Once the 6 months of tightening is over then you can install the locks and will never have to worry about them again.

*Piston* · 11-07-2002, 09:33 PM

Thats the whole point of "softening" the gaskets. They compress much better this way, so after a few tightening's they are good to go... yes these bolts back out but its not only because of the gaskets. Constant heating/cooling cycles/vibrations and stress on the header cause them to back out.

Not that my way is better than anyone elses, to each his own... It works for me and now that I've installed the clips, I have no loose bolts.

Spoof · 11-07-2002, 10:14 PM

Mine used to require regular tightening but they no longer back off.

Crank · 11-07-2002, 10:23 PM

Does whether you have Aluminum or Cast Iron heads matter? The fact that Aluminum disapates heat better, would that make the bolts move more or less? Just another variable to think about huh?
Brandon

**67OLDSTYLE72** · 11-07-2002, 10:39 PM

this is 67oldstyle72's brother,,the best way i found to fixing this problem is take your header clean the rim that goes on the head,take red temp silicon make bead around each hole,make a nice ring around it,let it sit till the next day ,should be dry put on,bolt down,i haven't touched mine since march,just a suggestion,pappy taught me,,

mooneyes · 11-07-2002, 10:48 PM

i've had great luck useing the metal manifold gaskets..the last set i put in..i tighhtened..warmed it up tightened again and forgot about it...never touched them again..drove the car for 2 years as a daily driver...........i have used silicone on a race car were the headers were all banged up used the high temp copper stuff ...it workes good to

1971LT1SWBPOSI373 · 11-07-2002, 11:19 PM

I agree with Bigjim, Summit racing has a few new gaskets that recently came out, one that they claim is reusable.
I'm going to take the cheap route and drill the heads on my header bolts at my work with a drill press. Then I'm going to safety wire the bolts to each other. The gasket still may compress, but the bolts won't back off.....

68racer · 11-08-2002, 03:02 PM

I used to have this problem until I installed header studs. They are great, it's easier to install the headers and gaskets. The thread in the head does not get worn (especially ali). The outer thread is fine so you get more clamping force, can't recommend them enough! I used metal gaskets the only time I ever fitted the headers after the studs.

Mudder · 11-09-2002, 04:56 AM

Cut the flanges and use manifold gaskets ( about 5 bucks). Ive ran em like this for years. You tighen the bolts one time and forget them. Cut the flanges on the arrows.

dubie · 11-09-2002, 11:03 AM

I was told to cut those flanges as well, i guess it helps to stop the warping and loosening of the headers. The guy I bought my engine from runs stock cars, and he has had several set of them. Good thing to know, no i just gotta see if my headers will clear the shift linkage on my 3 spd

mikep · 11-09-2002, 11:41 AM

I Installed solid copper header gaskets. Tightened the bolts down good and tight once and I havent tightened them since. No leaks after 6000 miles and the bolts are as tight as the day I put them on.

junkyardjohn · 11-09-2002, 11:47 AM

STAGE-8 BRAND HEADER BOLTS N LOCKS. THE BEST $30 YOU'LL EVER SPEND IF YOU RUN HEADERS. THEIR STAINLESS, HAVE AN ALLEN HEAD TYPE HOLE IN THE END OF THE HEAD,THE LOCK HAS A 12 POINT HOLE IN IT TO FIT OVER THE BOLT HEAD WHILE BUTTING UP AGAINST A HEADER TUBE, & THERES A GROOVE IN THE BOLT HEAD FOR A C-CLIP TO HOLD THE LOCK IN PLACE. I'VE HAD A SET ON MY BIG BLOCK TRUCK FOR THREE YEARS WITHOUT RETIGHTENING. I RUN THESE ON ALL MY TRUCKS WITH HEADERS, & WOULDN'T CONSIDER RUNNING HEADERS WITHOUT THEM.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is the gasket. The bolts are not coming loose, the gasket is compressing when the header and the head expand when they heat up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I LIKE TO RUN COPPER GASKETS & DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE GASKETS COMPRESSING. TO EACH HIS OWN, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY HEADER LEAKAGE PROBLEM AT ALL ANYMORE, & THATS THE ONLY BAD THING THAT I'VE EVER HAD TO SAY ABOUT HEADERS.

__________________

Project1970 · 11-09-2002, 05:00 PM

If you guys want any more suggestions, take a look at some fourth-generation Camaro boards...those guys REALLY know how to keep header bolts tight, beacuse if they don't...it's a MAJOR B!TCH to re-do them. (Plugs and wires generally take 8 hours or so the first time you do them on a 4th-gen Z28. Yes, 8. No room to work, and that makes header installation look easy...)

TUBBED-AND-STROKED · 11-10-2002, 12:57 AM

PROJECT 1970 IS RIGHT ON....HAD A FOURTH GEN Z28 BEFORE I PICKED UP MY TRUCK (WANTED SOMETHING FASTER!!) HAD THE SAME PROBLEM ON MY 383 IN MY TRUCK UNTIL I STARTED USING FEL PRO GASKETS...LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE BUT WELL WORTH IT!

crazy longhorn · 11-10-2002, 11:28 AM

I am running the gaskets that came with the Hooker headers, & havent had any problems keeping them tight. I do run the first set of exhuast hangers about 1 ft behind the collectors, & feel that by keeping the weight of the ex system off the headers even the papergaskets hold up pretty well. There are much better gaskets on the market than ther was 20yrs ago.......the felpro's & the Mr G ultras are a couple.....

71GMC_3/4T · 11-10-2002, 11:56 AM

You also need to make sure your exhaust system is sufficiently clamped so the header can't shake back and forth. There should be a factory hanger about 1' or so back from the collectors.
My old headers were warped and constantly coming loose since the exhaust pipes were wobbly. New headers and pipes made a big difference. I also used the copper gaskets. Fairly expensive, but I hope they were worth it. I tightened the bolts a couple times in the first two weeks and they seem to be holding fine. That reminds me, I should go out and do them again, just for fun...

11-07-2002, 07:05 PM	#1
white68chevy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hurst,TX,US Posts: 301	header bolts wont stay tight Does anybody knwo how to keep hooker headers tight? I have to tighten mine up about once a week. Thanks a lot. __________________ 1968 swb IM-Bufechevy56 If its to loud then your to old

11-07-2002, 07:13 PM	#2
ckhd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Johns, Arizona Posts: 2,660	That's a very common problem. Are you talking about where they bolt to the head, or down at the collector? Both seem to back off like crazy. Look at these bolts that Summit has. They have a groove in the head. You tighten the bolt, slip on the D shaped washer, put the c-clip on. The D shaped washer butts up against the header tube and keeps them from backing off. I haven't used them, but I plan on it next time I have anything with headers! __________________ my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans?

11-07-2002, 07:34 PM	#3
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	ok...this is fixable...torque them down( as tight as a 7/16 wrench will go) run the motor until it reaches running temp...tighten them again....in 2 days do it again...then a week...then every 2 weeks..then once a month or so...its not that much work and it will work __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F*&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA

11-07-2002, 08:35 PM	#5
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	The problem is the gasket. The bolts are not coming loose, the gasket is compressing when the header and the head expand when they heat up. Even if you get bolts that have a c-clip, if you pull it off you will find that the bolts are still loose. Paper gaskets are the worst. Back when I ran headers back in the stone age, I aways ran regular manifold gaskets, they seemed to do better. I sure they make much better gaskets now, and I'm sure some of these guys will tell you which ones are best. __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS

11-07-2002, 08:52 PM	#6
adamls Gotta Startem Early Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Amarillo, TX, USA Posts: 364	I am with bigjimzlll. That is how I've always done it. Within about 6 months you will no lnoger have tot ighten them. Tom Hand is right, it is the gaskets contracting not the bolts loosening. Once the 6 months of tightening is over then you can install the locks and will never have to worry about them again. __________________ 67 SWB In Progress, one piece at a time, maybe 3 years I will be finished

11-07-2002, 07:44 PM	#4
Piston Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 2,301	ckhd, thats the system I'm using now. Not that this will work for everyone but I know it works for me. I've swapped engines 2 times in this truck since I've had it and only once have I had to go in and replace the gaskets becuase the bolts got loose. They would get loose every couple of months and would have to retighten them. Till now. Buy regular old Mr.Gasket header gaskets (white) then soak them in water for about 2 hours or so(until the fibers start to expand), bolt the headers on and since 6 of the bolts can only be tightened with a wrench, I just put a "healthy" turn on all the bolts instead of trying to torque them. Drive it for a few days, check all bolts. Do this for about 2 weeks then install the E-Clip system. I've had this engine in for about 2 maybe 3 months and no problems. This is the first time i've used the E-Clips and they work very well. Very simple to install.

11-07-2002, 09:33 PM	#7
Piston Account Suspended Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 2,301	Thats the whole point of "softening" the gaskets. They compress much better this way, so after a few tightening's they are good to go... yes these bolts back out but its not only because of the gaskets. Constant heating/cooling cycles/vibrations and stress on the header cause them to back out. Not that my way is better than anyone elses, to each his own... It works for me and now that I've installed the clips, I have no loose bolts.

11-07-2002, 10:14 PM	#8
Spoof Registered User Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Victoria,BC, Canada Posts: 1,300	Mine used to require regular tightening but they no longer back off. __________________ 71 GMC 1500 LWB

11-07-2002, 10:23 PM	#9
Crank Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Crittenden, KY Posts: 1,965	Does whether you have Aluminum or Cast Iron heads matter? The fact that Aluminum disapates heat better, would that make the bolts move more or less? Just another variable to think about huh? Brandon

11-07-2002, 10:39 PM	#10
67OLDSTYLE72 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: LEECHBURG,PA.,U.S.A. Posts: 496	this is 67oldstyle72's brother,,the best way i found to fixing this problem is take your header clean the rim that goes on the head,take red temp silicon make bead around each hole,make a nice ring around it,let it sit till the next day ,should be dry put on,bolt down,i haven't touched mine since march,just a suggestion,pappy taught me,, __________________ Jay Snyder Leechburg, PA (Northeast of Pittsburgh) 72 Chevy Cheyenne 4x4 camper special #matching '71 Chevy Dually 4x4 '69 Chevy Pro Street swb. '72 Chevy camper special 4x4 402 v8 (not factory) just cool. (truck puller) 70 Chevy swb 400 v8 400 turbo 72 Chevy suburban 4x4, 396 4spd. 68 Chevy shortbed 50th Anv. 327. 72 Chevy 2 wd. Blazer 69 Chevy swb 4x4 327 4spd. 58 Chevy Apache 4x4 swb. 71 Chevy CREW CAB swb 4x4 396 4spd. (just finished) WE BUY AND SALE TRUCKS AND PARTS

11-07-2002, 10:48 PM	#11
mooneyes Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slippery Rock PA USA Posts: 1,692	i've had great luck useing the metal manifold gaskets..the last set i put in..i tighhtened..warmed it up tightened again and forgot about it...never touched them again..drove the car for 2 years as a daily driver...........i have used silicone on a race car were the headers were all banged up used the high temp copper stuff ...it workes good to __________________ Ken Lyons, Slippery rock pa 68 short step 327 t10 4 gear 72 2wd blazer project 70 lwb 305/700r driver 78 caprice project 02 cavalier D.D ( hate it!!)

11-07-2002, 11:19 PM	#12
1971LT1SWBPOSI373 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Posts: 460	I agree with Bigjim, Summit racing has a few new gaskets that recently came out, one that they claim is reusable. I'm going to take the cheap route and drill the heads on my header bolts at my work with a drill press. Then I'm going to safety wire the bolts to each other. The gasket still may compress, but the bolts won't back off..... __________________ 1971 Shortbed 350/350 w/ Posi-traction 3:73's 1996 Chevy Silverado TJ in Springfield, Virginia Likes old Chevy trucks Drinks Miller MGD

11-08-2002, 03:02 PM	#13
68racer Yeah baby! Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 436	I used to have this problem until I installed header studs. They are great, it's easier to install the headers and gaskets. The thread in the head does not get worn (especially ali). The outer thread is fine so you get more clamping force, can't recommend them enough! I used metal gaskets the only time I ever fitted the headers after the studs.

11-09-2002, 04:56 AM	#14
Mudder Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: East Central, MO Posts: 11,336	Cut em! Cut the flanges and use manifold gaskets ( about 5 bucks). Ive ran em like this for years. You tighen the bolts one time and forget them. Cut the flanges on the arrows.

11-09-2002, 11:03 AM	#15
dubie Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Location: Flin Flon, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 8,855	I was told to cut those flanges as well, i guess it helps to stop the warping and loosening of the headers. The guy I bought my engine from runs stock cars, and he has had several set of them. Good thing to know, no i just gotta see if my headers will clear the shift linkage on my 3 spd __________________ My name's Tim and I'm a truckaholic My 56 Chevy shop truck build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=562795



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11-09-2002, 11:41 AM	#16
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	I Installed solid copper header gaskets. Tightened the bolts down good and tight once and I havent tightened them since. No leaks after 6000 miles and the bolts are as tight as the day I put them on. __________________ No truck :-(

11-09-2002, 11:47 AM	#17
junkyardjohn Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: SOMERSET KY. Posts: 6,427	STAGE-8 BRAND HEADER BOLTS N LOCKS. THE BEST $30 YOU'LL EVER SPEND IF YOU RUN HEADERS. THEIR STAINLESS, HAVE AN ALLEN HEAD TYPE HOLE IN THE END OF THE HEAD,THE LOCK HAS A 12 POINT HOLE IN IT TO FIT OVER THE BOLT HEAD WHILE BUTTING UP AGAINST A HEADER TUBE, & THERES A GROOVE IN THE BOLT HEAD FOR A C-CLIP TO HOLD THE LOCK IN PLACE. I'VE HAD A SET ON MY BIG BLOCK TRUCK FOR THREE YEARS WITHOUT RETIGHTENING. I RUN THESE ON ALL MY TRUCKS WITH HEADERS, & WOULDN'T CONSIDER RUNNING HEADERS WITHOUT THEM. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The problem is the gasket. The bolts are not coming loose, the gasket is compressing when the header and the head expand when they heat up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I LIKE TO RUN COPPER GASKETS & DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE GASKETS COMPRESSING. TO EACH HIS OWN, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY HEADER LEAKAGE PROBLEM AT ALL ANYMORE, & THATS THE ONLY BAD THING THAT I'VE EVER HAD TO SAY ABOUT HEADERS. __________________ Attached Images __________________ junkyardjohn 69 1 TON TOW TRUCK // 84 4WD CUCV BLAZER// 85 1 TON 4WD STAKE TRUCK// 86 M1031 5/4 TON 4WD CUCV// ALOT OF OLD TRUCKS FOR ONE OLD MAN TO DRIVE. THERES ROOM FOR ALL OF GODS CREATURES RIGHT NEXT TO MY MASHED POTATOES// LIFE MEMBER OF P.E.T.A (PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS) DON'T RENT U-HAUL ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH IT WILL AMAZE PART OF THE PEOPLE & ASTONISH THE REST

11-09-2002, 05:00 PM	#18
Project1970 14.1 @ 96MPH Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,811	If you guys want any more suggestions, take a look at some fourth-generation Camaro boards...those guys REALLY know how to keep header bolts tight, beacuse if they don't...it's a MAJOR B!TCH to re-do them. (Plugs and wires generally take 8 hours or so the first time you do them on a 4th-gen Z28. Yes, 8. No room to work, and that makes header installation look easy...) __________________ Project1970 - LS1 Swap Complete!

11-10-2002, 12:57 AM	#19
TUBBED-AND-STROKED Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: SAN DIEGO/CA Posts: 3	PROJECT 1970 IS RIGHT ON....HAD A FOURTH GEN Z28 BEFORE I PICKED UP MY TRUCK (WANTED SOMETHING FASTER!!) HAD THE SAME PROBLEM ON MY 383 IN MY TRUCK UNTIL I STARTED USING FEL PRO GASKETS...LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE BUT WELL WORTH IT!

11-10-2002, 11:28 AM	#20
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	I am running the gaskets that came with the Hooker headers, & havent had any problems keeping them tight. I do run the first set of exhuast hangers about 1 ft behind the collectors, & feel that by keeping the weight of the ex system off the headers even the papergaskets hold up pretty well. There are much better gaskets on the market than ther was 20yrs ago.......the felpro's & the Mr G ultras are a couple..... __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

11-10-2002, 11:56 AM	#21
71GMC_3/4T Weapons Of Construction Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 1,095	You also need to make sure your exhaust system is sufficiently clamped so the header can't shake back and forth. There should be a factory hanger about 1' or so back from the collectors. My old headers were warped and constantly coming loose since the exhaust pipes were wobbly. New headers and pipes made a big difference. I also used the copper gaskets. Fairly expensive, but I hope they were worth it. I tightened the bolts a couple times in the first two weeks and they seem to be holding fine. That reminds me, I should go out and do them again, just for fun... __________________ 1971 GMC 2500, 402/TH400 4.10 Daily Driver Lafayette, CO

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