Opinions requested! (700r4 vs ring & pinion) - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

ckhd · 11-08-2002, 07:05 PM

Hey,

My tranny is near death in the 'burb. I talked to a friend of mine who went to UTI, and then has worked as a mechanic since then (8 years maybe). Anyway, I told him I wanted to go with a 700r4. He turned his nose up at that! He said that I should just go with a 3.07 gear change and rebuild the t-350. I have 3.73s now, and don't forget it's a 4 wheel drive.

What do you guys think? I wanted the 700r4 so that it was basically the same in low through drive, but then when I hit the highway, I'd get an overdrive. He says, "What do you need low gears for?" The 'burb weighs 5600#. I think I need 3.73s just to get going.

Any opinions/suggestions?

Alexis · 11-08-2002, 07:18 PM

i remeber someone haven problem getting into overdrive cause of there tire hight and gear ratio. but i dont think you should be having that problem. remeber 700 have a lower first gear so i dont think it will have much problem pulling the burb wiht 3.07 but you rpm wiht be a little more with the 3.73. see hwo the tranny acts to the 3.73 if it does fine then stick wiht it, if not then look at you choices in gears.

*Fast68Chevy* · 11-08-2002, 07:19 PM

either way you go its gonna cost a bunch and gonna be a headache, personally id go for th350 or ch465 and 3.73 and taller tires to make up for 3.73 change and to also make truck look cooler anyways, serves two purposes really.

how to get 3.73 under truck depends on $$ available and resources available to you. could either have shop change gears or go to somewhere like colorado K5 and find a pair of 3.73 axles for sale or trade for what you have, someone else will probably have better info/ideas

good luck

Alexis · 11-08-2002, 07:28 PM

hit the guys up at www.700r4.com and see what they think abou tyour situation.

Stepside · 11-08-2002, 07:30 PM

An after market 700

ckhd · 11-08-2002, 07:35 PM

Fast, I already have 3.73s. My friend is telling me to keep the t-350 and put in 3.07s to get my lower rpms. The friend that is telling me this can do a rearend blindfolded (and offered to do it -- without the blindfold), so there won't be a labor cost associated with either option.

Alexis, do you think they would actually give me an honest answer, or would they tell me I need a 700r4, because that's what they do? Would Randy's Ring & Pinion then tell me to put in 3.07s and keep the t-350?

I hate asking the opinion of someone who stands to make money on me depending on the answer they give.

Alexis · 11-08-2002, 07:40 PM

check this post out. form what it says the guy there are pretty strait foward.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=28122

keeping the th350 and dropping in 3.07 might help wiht larger tires. if you really want to see the rpm drop i would definetly go wiht a 700r4. Somtime you just got to trust the vendor, they are there for a reason ya know. I dont think it would hurt to give them a call and call a few other venders check what they got to say.

bigjimzlll · 11-08-2002, 07:47 PM

with 3.73-1 gears and a 700r4 in 4th gear @60 mph your rpms will be 1,676 with 35" tires and 1,955 rpm with 30" tires

bigvinnie · 11-08-2002, 07:58 PM

Keep the 3.73s and go with the 700R4.... it's an easy swap and you'll have more flexibility...... grumpy gears when you need em, plus low rpms on the hiway.

I'm currently running 3.07s with a 700R4 behind a basically stock 350 4 bbl, and the problem is that on the hiway the rpms are actually too low in lockup (about 2000 rpms at 70 mph), keeping me outa my power band.... I can burn rubber from a stop, but it's more like a chirp.... 3.73s will help in both of these situations, and I'm in a much lighter 2wd shortbed, so I would think you'd benefit even more with the heavier 4WD....

A motor built for more low end power might fair better with 3.07s, but I think the 3.73 gears still win in your situation...

alta-aj · 11-08-2002, 08:14 PM

There is no evidence of wear and it comes complete with bearings, spacers and of course pinion. Send me an e-mail if interested. Otherwise you'll see it on the parts board soon.

ckhd · 11-11-2002, 02:48 PM

I'd love a 3.07 posi unit, but I won't have parts money until Uncle Sam lets me have my money back. I doubt you'd still have it then.

Truckstr · 11-11-2002, 03:11 PM

Other posters have said it first, but go with the 700R4 (or newer 4L60E) and keep the 3.73s. You'll have a much deeper 1st gear (3.06:1) and and overdrive for 4th (~0.7:1). That combo will give you lots of low end grunt without driving you crazy with the noise (not to mention less wear and tear) at highway speeds.

One thing to watch out for. When searching for a 700R4, find one from an '87 or newer truck, Camaro or 'Vette. The older ones were weak and had lots of problems (probably why your buddy has a "bad taste" about 700R4s).

Don't be scared of the newer ones that are electronically controlled. There are plenty of stand alone wiring harnesses and computeres available for them - just extra $$$s.

The 700R4s, when set up right, are a lot better than the Turbo 350s - and easier to live with.

Jeff

Slammed67 · 11-11-2002, 03:26 PM

I've talked to the owner of Bowtie Overdrives and he is very knowledgable. I've got the 700R4 with a 3.07 rear and I'm pretty happy with it. The truck is a blast to drive with the 700R4 gearing. Here's a quote from 700R4.com......

Quote:

Install a TH-700R4 with these existing 3.08 rear end gears. This car will launch like a TH-350 or TH-400 with 3.73:1 rear end gears, so you can now have your stop light fun. When the Th-700R4 goes into fourth gear, your final drive ratio will be 2.16:1. (3.08:1 rear end ratio x .70:1 4th gear ratio in the Th 700R4 = 2.16:1 overall final drive ratio) With a 26" diameter tire, a 3.08:1 rear end ratio and the Th-700R4 in .70:1 fourth gear, your engine would be turning only 1670 RPM at 60 MPH. This is a pretty picture!

Give them a call and talk to Steve Holmes. Very nice guy and I'm sure he can answer any of your questions. If you do get a 700R4, I'd recommend getting their "TC Made EZ" kit. If nothing else, go to their site and read all the information.

Bigvinnie: I've got a mildly built 350 and I can easly roast the tires in 1st and it'll chirp 'em in 2nd if I keep my foot in it

Project1970 · 11-11-2002, 07:43 PM

Go with the 700R4 - you won't be sorry. Not only do you get the deeper first as others have mentioned, and the nice tall 4th gear...it's a lockup torque converter as well, which is good for an additional 300-500rpm drop or so over an equivalent gear ratio (i.e....final drive with a 700R4 and 3.73 is 2.61...but you'd be turning lower RPMs with a 700R4/3.73 than you would with a 350 or 400 withg the "2.61" gears).

Installation really isn't that hard - the only problem I have left is the fact that my exhaust was bent around the 3-speed stick and doesn't quite clear my auto linkage enough to get into L1.

FWIW, I've got 3.73s and 28" tires. You shouldn't have trouble getting into OD period with any setup unless your TV cable is messed up or if you've got a 100% fresh tranny. Believe it or not, mine wouldn't hit 4th gear until I jacked the rear end up, pulled off the wheels and brake drums, and wound it out...the speedo was bouncing around where I estimate 120 would be once it shifted, heh...it's more common of a problem than you'd think.

Fred T · 11-11-2002, 08:37 PM

Since you're going to put in a new tranny, get the 700. If you ever pull or haul anything, you'll need the lower gears. And if it's still to low, you can always go with a 3.42 or something in that range.

Ackattack · 11-11-2002, 11:37 PM

I've also thought abouit the 700R4, my question is, will I have to get a different length drive shaft, or is it the same lenth as a TH350?

**breeh** · 11-12-2002, 12:47 AM

I have a 700R4 in my '68 married to an NP205. I am running 33" tires and have a 4:10 rear. I can't imagine running a TH350 now. The 700 is great! I just took it on a 2200 mile hunting trip to SD. That old '68 ran at 75 mph, no problem. I get 10 mpg no matter if it is uphill, downhill, headwind, tailwind, whatever. Of course, I am running a stout 427 so I guess I should be happy

. My recommendation is go with the 700!

ckhd · 11-12-2002, 09:39 AM

I've pretty much convinced myself to go with the 700r4 (with the help of all who have posted). I sent Bowtie Overdrives a really long e-mail with all the questions I could think of asking. Hopefully they will get back to me with good news to all my q's.

11-08-2002, 07:05 PM	#1
ckhd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Johns, Arizona Posts: 2,660	Opinions requested! (700r4 vs ring & pinion) Hey, My tranny is near death in the 'burb. I talked to a friend of mine who went to UTI, and then has worked as a mechanic since then (8 years maybe). Anyway, I told him I wanted to go with a 700r4. He turned his nose up at that! He said that I should just go with a 3.07 gear change and rebuild the t-350. I have 3.73s now, and don't forget it's a 4 wheel drive. What do you guys think? I wanted the 700r4 so that it was basically the same in low through drive, but then when I hit the highway, I'd get an overdrive. He says, "What do you need low gears for?" The 'burb weighs 5600#. I think I need 3.73s just to get going. Any opinions/suggestions? __________________ my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans?

11-08-2002, 07:30 PM	#5
Stepside Gasser Join Date: May 2000 Location: Thomasville,NC USA Posts: 456	An after market 700 __________________ :thud 70 sstep tubbed, Muncie, double hump, snowflake,

11-08-2002, 07:35 PM	#6
ckhd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Johns, Arizona Posts: 2,660	Fast, I already have 3.73s. My friend is telling me to keep the t-350 and put in 3.07s to get my lower rpms. The friend that is telling me this can do a rearend blindfolded (and offered to do it -- without the blindfold), so there won't be a labor cost associated with either option. Alexis, do you think they would actually give me an honest answer, or would they tell me I need a 700r4, because that's what they do? Would Randy's Ring & Pinion then tell me to put in 3.07s and keep the t-350? I hate asking the opinion of someone who stands to make money on me depending on the answer they give. __________________ my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans?

11-08-2002, 07:47 PM	#8
bigjimzlll Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Redding,CA...USA Posts: 4,736	with 3.73-1 gears and a 700r4 in 4th gear @60 mph your rpms will be 1,676 with 35" tires and 1,955 rpm with 30" tires __________________ It's called "drag racing" if they called it "tic..tic..WHAM!..BANG! F*&K!!!", they'd have to keep the magazines under the counter with the other men's publications click the clicky to join the site.... http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php 67 lwb..first hotrod in 25 years..540 best ET is 9.45 @ 141.44 Anderson,CA

11-08-2002, 07:58 PM	#9
bigvinnie Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: escondido, ca 92026 Posts: 1,222	Keep the 3.73s and go with the 700R4.... it's an easy swap and you'll have more flexibility...... grumpy gears when you need em, plus low rpms on the hiway. I'm currently running 3.07s with a 700R4 behind a basically stock 350 4 bbl, and the problem is that on the hiway the rpms are actually too low in lockup (about 2000 rpms at 70 mph), keeping me outa my power band.... I can burn rubber from a stop, but it's more like a chirp.... 3.73s will help in both of these situations, and I'm in a much lighter 2wd shortbed, so I would think you'd benefit even more with the heavier 4WD.... A motor built for more low end power might fair better with 3.07s, but I think the 3.73 gears still win in your situation... __________________ '72 short step, 350, 700R4, tilt, ps, pdb, a/c, lowered coils, etc., other work in progress... San Diego, CA 72 Stepside Project

11-08-2002, 07:18 PM	#2
Alexis Member since 2000 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Mountain View Ca / Mexico Posts: 7,879	i remeber someone haven problem getting into overdrive cause of there tire hight and gear ratio. but i dont think you should be having that problem. remeber 700 have a lower first gear so i dont think it will have much problem pulling the burb wiht 3.07 but you rpm wiht be a little more with the 3.73. see hwo the tranny acts to the 3.73 if it does fine then stick wiht it, if not then look at you choices in gears.

11-08-2002, 07:19 PM	#3
Fast68Chevy Account Suspended Join Date: May 2000 Location: IL Posts: 0	either way you go its gonna cost a bunch and gonna be a headache, personally id go for th350 or ch465 and 3.73 and taller tires to make up for 3.73 change and to also make truck look cooler anyways, serves two purposes really. how to get 3.73 under truck depends on $$ available and resources available to you. could either have shop change gears or go to somewhere like colorado K5 and find a pair of 3.73 axles for sale or trade for what you have, someone else will probably have better info/ideas good luck

11-08-2002, 07:28 PM	#4
Alexis Member since 2000 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Mountain View Ca / Mexico Posts: 7,879	hit the guys up at www.700r4.com and see what they think abou tyour situation.

11-08-2002, 07:40 PM	#7
Alexis Member since 2000 Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Mountain View Ca / Mexico Posts: 7,879	check this post out. form what it says the guy there are pretty strait foward. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=28122 keeping the th350 and dropping in 3.07 might help wiht larger tires. if you really want to see the rpm drop i would definetly go wiht a 700r4. Somtime you just got to trust the vendor, they are there for a reason ya know. I dont think it would hurt to give them a call and call a few other venders check what they got to say.

11-08-2002, 08:14 PM	#10
alta-aj Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Qualicum Beach, B.C>, Canada Posts: 117	If you are interested, nice 3..07:1 posi There is no evidence of wear and it comes complete with bearings, spacers and of course pinion. Send me an e-mail if interested. Otherwise you'll see it on the parts board soon.

11-11-2002, 02:48 PM	#11
ckhd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Johns, Arizona Posts: 2,660	I'd love a 3.07 posi unit, but I won't have parts money until Uncle Sam lets me have my money back. I doubt you'd still have it then. __________________ my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans?

11-11-2002, 03:11 PM	#12
Truckstr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Lebanon, Tennessee Posts: 1,372	Other posters have said it first, but go with the 700R4 (or newer 4L60E) and keep the 3.73s. You'll have a much deeper 1st gear (3.06:1) and and overdrive for 4th (~0.7:1). That combo will give you lots of low end grunt without driving you crazy with the noise (not to mention less wear and tear) at highway speeds. One thing to watch out for. When searching for a 700R4, find one from an '87 or newer truck, Camaro or 'Vette. The older ones were weak and had lots of problems (probably why your buddy has a "bad taste" about 700R4s). Don't be scared of the newer ones that are electronically controlled. There are plenty of stand alone wiring harnesses and computeres available for them - just extra $$$s. The 700R4s, when set up right, are a lot better than the Turbo 350s - and easier to live with. Jeff __________________ Jeff '67 short Fleet; my ongoing project. '66 long Fleet; my original "baby." Live life or bust trying.

11-11-2002, 07:43 PM	#14
Project1970 14.1 @ 96MPH Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 2,811	Go with the 700R4 - you won't be sorry. Not only do you get the deeper first as others have mentioned, and the nice tall 4th gear...it's a lockup torque converter as well, which is good for an additional 300-500rpm drop or so over an equivalent gear ratio (i.e....final drive with a 700R4 and 3.73 is 2.61...but you'd be turning lower RPMs with a 700R4/3.73 than you would with a 350 or 400 withg the "2.61" gears). Installation really isn't that hard - the only problem I have left is the fact that my exhaust was bent around the 3-speed stick and doesn't quite clear my auto linkage enough to get into L1. FWIW, I've got 3.73s and 28" tires. You shouldn't have trouble getting into OD period with any setup unless your TV cable is messed up or if you've got a 100% fresh tranny. Believe it or not, mine wouldn't hit 4th gear until I jacked the rear end up, pulled off the wheels and brake drums, and wound it out...the speedo was bouncing around where I estimate 120 would be once it shifted, heh...it's more common of a problem than you'd think. __________________ Project1970 - LS1 Swap Complete! Last edited by Project1970; 11-11-2002 at 07:45 PM.

11-11-2002, 08:37 PM	#15
Fred T Cantankerous Geezer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bel Aire, KS Posts: 6,264	Since you're going to put in a new tranny, get the 700. If you ever pull or haul anything, you'll need the lower gears. And if it's still to low, you can always go with a 3.42 or something in that range. __________________ Fred There is no such thing as too much cam...just not enough engine.

11-11-2002, 11:37 PM	#16
Ackattack Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Valley Center KS Posts: 3,525	I've also thought abouit the 700R4, my question is, will I have to get a different length drive shaft, or is it the same lenth as a TH350? __________________ Project Bruiser: 68 Pro-Touring C-10 5.3L / 4L60E Project Ironhide: 97 GMC Crew Cab 4x4 Cummins SOLD: '69 GMC 1/2T SWB TBI'd: Project No Buck Assembly Manual Index Sign up Thread!!! Factory Service Manual Index



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11-12-2002, 12:47 AM	#17
breeh Recovering 67-72 Addict Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Bend, WA Posts: 1,788	I have a 700R4 in my '68 married to an NP205. I am running 33" tires and have a 4:10 rear. I can't imagine running a TH350 now. The 700 is great! I just took it on a 2200 mile hunting trip to SD. That old '68 ran at 75 mph, no problem. I get 10 mpg no matter if it is uphill, downhill, headwind, tailwind, whatever. Of course, I am running a stout 427 so I guess I should be happy . My recommendation is go with the 700! __________________ 68 Short Fleet 4x4; 427; BTO Level 3 700R4; NP205; Dana 60 front and rear; 4" lift with 35's; Disc brakes; AGR variable ratio steering; factory bucket seats; factory tach and tilt. "Friends call me cruzer cuz I like fast cars and fast women"

11-12-2002, 09:39 AM	#18
ckhd Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: St. Johns, Arizona Posts: 2,660	I've pretty much convinced myself to go with the 700r4 (with the help of all who have posted). I sent Bowtie Overdrives a really long e-mail with all the questions I could think of asking. Hopefully they will get back to me with good news to all my q's. __________________ my 2¢ - t.i.o.l.i. Bowen 1968 K20 fleet 1969 K10 swb fleet 1972 K10 Suburban 1972 C10 lwb step 1992 K1500 'burb 1995 K2500 'burb 1997 C1500 'burb 1999 K1500 2000 K1500 'burb Why do I own so many Suburbans?

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