Thank you Uncle Sammy....... - Page 2 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 05:54 PM

that spounds like a generic 'old school' replacement engine.
Find out if it has a roller cam. if you still have the part number, you can research it through GM.

arkracing · 03-01-2007, 05:55 PM

OK - lots of stuff being thrown around in here about the lack of zinc etc.

WAS THE CAM PROPERLY BROKEN IN?????!!!!!! if you started a new motor with a new cam and let it idle - it was not broken in.

If you are worried about your older motor - run some Shell Rotella Deisel oil in it.

The GM addative shouldn't be used with every oil change.

Crane Cams makes some break-in lube (that supposedly can be used @ every oil change)

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

grebus1 · 03-01-2007, 06:04 PM

Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type?

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 06:28 PM

if it's a flat tappet cam, it is at risk.
An improperly broken in cam would only last a hundred miles or so.

68C15 · 03-01-2007, 06:47 PM

the Hot Rod article mentions a few options.

1. run a roller cam
2. groove the lifter bore
3. check for sloppy bores allowing the lifter to rock and essentially scrape the cam
4. run beehive springs instead of dual springs
5. avoid bargain priced "no-name" lifters
6. use weaker springs for cam break-in
the rest are for in service engines
7. run a pre-lube all the time
8. use diesel oil (but that stuff will loose the zinc soon) and on an older engine with more blow-by you will end up with detergents in the chamber causing detonation.
9. use racing oil. but this is not good for catalytic converters and may void any warranties.

on a side note some of the lifter manufacturers offer versions with either a small hole on the face or a flat ground into the side to allow extra lube to reach the cam/lifter contact area.

as has been discussed earlier the oil companies are doing what the car makers ask. they (car makers ) have bigger fish to fry than worry about us guys who are bound and determined to keep driving old technology. they are in business to sell NEW cars and trucks. in order to do this they have to meet ever increasingly stringent emissions standards. I do not blame them, but I am disappointed as to this "advancement".
now, where in God's name do I find a roller cam and lifters for a 472 caddy?

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

where in God's name do I find a roller cam and lifters for a 472 caddy?

I was wondering the same since I hope to rebuild my 500 soon.

knsmodels · 03-01-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grebus1

Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type?

as was said I would think any engine with flat tappet cam and lifters would be at risk (maybe lawnmowers, powerwashers, and any other small engine as well)......I know I will probably go roller with my BB Chevelle when I redo the engine this spring......

arkracing · 03-01-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

if it's a flat tappet cam, it is at risk.
An improperly broken in cam would only last a hundred miles or so.

Basically all non-Roller Cams are @ risk here - the average joe who is rebuilding his motor is running a "Hydraulic Lifter" - which are the biggest problem right now.
Only way to slove the problem completely is to run a Roller - but the cost to retrofit

Andy - I have to disagree with the 100mile comment,

From my experience and from everything that I've heard - an improperly broke in cam can last anywhere from 0 miles-20k miles. I've seen plenty of "improperly broke in" cams with more than 100 miles on them - still running ok @ about 5k - the vehicles haven't stuck around long enough to know what the future life will be though. It seems from all the failure stories that I have heard - most of them end up happening around 6k-12k

I'm not trying to be a A$* - but before blaming a cam failure on the lack of Zinc or Phosphate addatives, you really should know if the Cam was properly broken in.

KNS - when you first started the truck (fresh off the rebuild with the new cam) did you let the motor idle or did you have the truck running @ about 1800-2200 RPM?????

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 08:57 PM

I'll take your word on that one... never heard of that myself.

knsmodels · 03-01-2007, 09:25 PM

KNS - when you first started the truck (fresh off the rebuild with the new cam) did you let the motor idle or did you have the truck running @ about 1800-2200 RPM?????[/QUOTE]

ark......ran it at 1800-2200 for 20-30 min as soon as it fired up......

ks147j111928 · 03-01-2007, 10:11 PM

Ah, screw it all... I'm gonna stick to 20w50 for my 292. Works good so far! Maybe straight up 30wt if I can get it...

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 11:06 PM

it's not the weight that matters so much in this discussion... it's the formula.

jeffspower · 03-01-2007, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

I was wondering the same since I hope to rebuild my 500 soon.

Here ya go- but it's gonna hit your wallet hard.

http://www.cadillacperformanceparts....id=5&Itemid=47

http://www.cad500parts.com/catalog/page12.htm

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 11:55 PM

that's what I was afraid of.

68C15 · 03-02-2007, 08:10 AM

$2200 for a cam and I will have to run their rockers?!
maybe I will have to do one of the other options.

where does a guy get Zinc?

killer71 · 03-02-2007, 10:03 AM

Thanx for the info. ARKRACING!

arkracing · 03-02-2007, 05:46 PM

Well sounds like you properly broke in the cam.
Do you remember what brand it was?

There are a ton of variable that can cause a cam to have a short life.

If you choose not to go roller with the new cam - make sure you lub the heck out of the lobes and the bottom of the lifters with a moly type lube (Grey stuff from Crane is good) - the red "goo" from Comp = not so good

Get a bottle of that Crane "break-in-concentrate"

Use 2 quarts of Shell Rotella 15-40 and 3 of your favorite name brand oil

Break it in for 20-30min.

Change the oil ASAP - put it another bottle of the Crane stuff with your regular Oil.

Run that for approx - 200-300miles.

Change again - Now you can use more of the Crane stuff - or put Rotella in it or whatever.

Run it for about 1k

Then you should be able to switch over to a synthetic - Amsoil or similar.

There is lots of good reading about the subject in the link that I posted on the first page.

knsmodels · 03-02-2007, 09:35 PM

Thanks ark......I am a member chevelles.com as well........dont frequent it as often as this one since my Chevelle is not presently running.....wish I had now

I did not build the motor myself so I dont know what lube he used.....I will be replacing the wiped one though (flat tappet again) and will be following the procedure in that post.......

68C15 · 03-03-2007, 07:52 AM

I am liking the idea of using some weaker springs for the break-in. maybe the old ones if they aren't broken.

knsmodels · 03-05-2007, 02:28 PM

Just got the new Cam for the truck (Crane) and it seems there is now additional info in with the cam about the Zinc removal mandated by the EPA......it only refers to the "break in" period as being more critical than ever and recommends Shell Rotella T, Chevron Delo 400 and Mobil DELVAC for all flat tappet cam break ins....Just wanted to update as allot of people I talk to about this have been throwing the BS flag so this just kinda confirms what has already been discussed in this thread.....Thanks

03-01-2007, 05:54 PM	#26
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... that spounds like a generic 'old school' replacement engine. Find out if it has a roller cam. if you still have the part number, you can research it through GM.

03-01-2007, 05:55 PM	#27
arkracing Weekend Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CT Posts: 1,787	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... OK - lots of stuff being thrown around in here about the lack of zinc etc. WAS THE CAM PROPERLY BROKEN IN?????!!!!!! if you started a new motor with a new cam and let it idle - it was not broken in. If you are worried about your older motor - run some Shell Rotella Deisel oil in it. The GM addative shouldn't be used with every oil change. Crane Cams makes some break-in lube (that supposedly can be used @ every oil change) http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku Attached Images __________________ -'07 GMC Sierra K2500HD -'66 C10 Suburban -'68/'71 K20 Service Bed Project -'69 Chevy C30 Mason Dump -'33Ford P/U 396ChevyPowered Last edited by arkracing; 03-01-2007 at 06:01 PM.

03-01-2007, 06:04 PM	#28
grebus1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 322	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type? __________________ '72 Chevy Suburban Custom Deluxe 10, 402/TH400

03-01-2007, 06:28 PM	#29
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... if it's a flat tappet cam, it is at risk. An improperly broken in cam would only last a hundred miles or so.

03-01-2007, 06:47 PM	#30
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... the Hot Rod article mentions a few options. 1. run a roller cam 2. groove the lifter bore 3. check for sloppy bores allowing the lifter to rock and essentially scrape the cam 4. run beehive springs instead of dual springs 5. avoid bargain priced "no-name" lifters 6. use weaker springs for cam break-in the rest are for in service engines 7. run a pre-lube all the time 8. use diesel oil (but that stuff will loose the zinc soon) and on an older engine with more blow-by you will end up with detergents in the chamber causing detonation. 9. use racing oil. but this is not good for catalytic converters and may void any warranties. on a side note some of the lifter manufacturers offer versions with either a small hole on the face or a flat ground into the side to allow extra lube to reach the cam/lifter contact area. as has been discussed earlier the oil companies are doing what the car makers ask. they (car makers ) have bigger fish to fry than worry about us guys who are bound and determined to keep driving old technology. they are in business to sell NEW cars and trucks. in order to do this they have to meet ever increasingly stringent emissions standards. I do not blame them, but I am disappointed as to this "advancement". now, where in God's name do I find a roller cam and lifters for a 472 caddy?

03-01-2007, 08:57 PM	#34
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... I'll take your word on that one... never heard of that myself.

03-01-2007, 09:25 PM	#35
knsmodels I make Models Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bucks, PA Posts: 626	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... KNS - when you first started the truck (fresh off the rebuild with the new cam) did you let the motor idle or did you have the truck running @ about 1800-2200 RPM?????[/QUOTE] ark......ran it at 1800-2200 for 20-30 min as soon as it fired up...... __________________ Click to see what I do 1972 LWB K10 350/4 sp 1968 SS Chevelle 396/tremac5spd

03-01-2007, 10:11 PM	#36
ks147j111928 ASE Certified Spoon Operator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 157	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Ah, screw it all... I'm gonna stick to 20w50 for my 292. Works good so far! Maybe straight up 30wt if I can get it... __________________ My six is bigger than your eight 67 K20 292 +.060" SM465 NP203 3.73s 86 4Runner, the daily on 31s 85 4Runner, the wheeler on 38s 92 x-cab truggy project for 2017... tons and 42s and V8 power

03-01-2007, 11:06 PM	#37
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... it's not the weight that matters so much in this discussion... it's the formula.

03-01-2007, 11:55 PM	#39
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... that's what I was afraid of.

03-02-2007, 08:10 AM	#40
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... $2200 for a cam and I will have to run their rockers?! maybe I will have to do one of the other options. where does a guy get Zinc?

03-02-2007, 10:03 AM	#41
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Thanx for the info. ARKRACING! __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

03-02-2007, 05:46 PM	#42
arkracing Weekend Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CT Posts: 1,787	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Well sounds like you properly broke in the cam. Do you remember what brand it was? There are a ton of variable that can cause a cam to have a short life. If you choose not to go roller with the new cam - make sure you lub the heck out of the lobes and the bottom of the lifters with a moly type lube (Grey stuff from Crane is good) - the red "goo" from Comp = not so good Get a bottle of that Crane "break-in-concentrate" Use 2 quarts of Shell Rotella 15-40 and 3 of your favorite name brand oil Break it in for 20-30min. Change the oil ASAP - put it another bottle of the Crane stuff with your regular Oil. Run that for approx - 200-300miles. Change again - Now you can use more of the Crane stuff - or put Rotella in it or whatever. Run it for about 1k Then you should be able to switch over to a synthetic - Amsoil or similar. There is lots of good reading about the subject in the link that I posted on the first page. __________________ -'07 GMC Sierra K2500HD -'66 C10 Suburban -'68/'71 K20 Service Bed Project -'69 Chevy C30 Mason Dump -'33Ford P/U 396ChevyPowered

03-02-2007, 09:35 PM	#43
knsmodels I make Models Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bucks, PA Posts: 626	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Thanks ark......I am a member chevelles.com as well........dont frequent it as often as this one since my Chevelle is not presently running.....wish I had now I did not build the motor myself so I dont know what lube he used.....I will be replacing the wiped one though (flat tappet again) and will be following the procedure in that post....... __________________ Click to see what I do 1972 LWB K10 350/4 sp 1968 SS Chevelle 396/tremac5spd Last edited by knsmodels; 03-02-2007 at 09:36 PM.

03-03-2007, 07:52 AM	#44
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... I am liking the idea of using some weaker springs for the break-in. maybe the old ones if they aren't broken.



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03-05-2007, 02:28 PM	#45
knsmodels I make Models Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bucks, PA Posts: 626	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Just got the new Cam for the truck (Crane) and it seems there is now additional info in with the cam about the Zinc removal mandated by the EPA......it only refers to the "break in" period as being more critical than ever and recommends Shell Rotella T, Chevron Delo 400 and Mobil DELVAC for all flat tappet cam break ins....Just wanted to update as allot of people I talk to about this have been throwing the BS flag so this just kinda confirms what has already been discussed in this thread.....Thanks __________________ Click to see what I do 1972 LWB K10 350/4 sp 1968 SS Chevelle 396/tremac5spd

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