Bags and springs?

[aaronfab]

Have a few questions for the suspension guru's. Right now I have, 3/4T front coils, cut 1 1/2 coil off in the front, and approx. 7" dia. Firestone air bags (off a Kenworth) with maybe 10-20 psi in the rear. The truck rides like... well, a truck. I want to put air bags in the front. Now my questions. Would I get a better ride with smaller dia. or larger dia. bags? Front and rear? Special shocks? Also, will be adding sway bars someday. Was telling a buddy just today, "I want Cadillac ride, Porshe handling, Drag car power, in my truck package."



Aaron

[myfirstcarwasa73trk]

Yeah me too I have a 67 my self and want an every day driver work with all the air ride stuff from a diesel I could ever use. Wanted to know whicth size would be better.

[centsless]

I am going to move this to suspension to see if you get some response to it

[Scott68-93-97]

I used to own my own chassis shop and a big part well the majority of our business was bags, for the weight of a full size truck I would run firestone 7200's, or conitech 7200, slam spcialties ES-72's not the rs -72's, 6200 bags will have a hard time lifting the truck and will have a real stiff ride. Run the 7200 with a pretty stiff gas charged shock even with out a sway bar it will handle great, with one it will carve canyons and ride like a caddi. If the ride is to soft change the mounting point of the bags cut the lower a arm apart and build a lower spring bucket so the bag has to be more extended for the ride heighth you prefer. In the rear you'll have to see how it rides once you bag the front, ajust the size of your bag or move the bags further up on the trailing arms(closer to the front mount) this will cause it to ride a little softer and have more lift per amount of pressure. I want to say the bags off the kenworth may be a little to soft expecially since they were designed to probably lift 15000 lbs a peice.

Anymore ?'s on bags let me know

Scott

[aaronfab]

Scott
Thanks for the info. In layman terms bigger dia. bag, softer ride or vice versa?? Just trying to figure witch way to go. Any schooling you can give on bags and suspension is awesome. Thanks again.

Aaron

[Scott68-93-97]

Aaron,

Are you trying to lay the frame out or just get a better ride with ajustability

Scott

[Scott68-93-97]

By the way checked out your website very cool work bro, You'll definatly won't have any problems fabing things on you truck. Bags are a small simple part of the whole geometry of the suspension depending on what you want is how your going to set things up if your looking to lay the thing down (which I recommend) trust me if you bag it and its not on the ground eventually youll want it there, I cut apart the front of my 97 just to get the extra 1/2" the front crossmember sat off the ground. When laying these older trucks out there are issues with the front crossmember and A-Arms the best thing to do there is step the frame or buy one of porterbuilts dropmembers if you can afford them to help the geometry of everything work with out problems. Every bag will have a length of stoke that the manufacturer recommends for ride height, but there is also a personal preference to this I like things a little stiff excpecially in the front 100 psi in the front bags of my 97 works really good but these trucks are a little heavyer than the older C10's. The rear is really easy on these notch the frame and/or trailing arm to the point the bag will have enough room let the truck drop all the way and a notch for the axle to come up a little higher, and make sure your pinion angle is good to avoid vibration and launch shutters. I'll get my 97 build up soon so you can get some what of an idea of how it goes together, but like I said with the stuff Iv'e seen on your website this is all an easy task.

[aaronfab]

Scott,
Thanks for the props about my work. I'm looking to "just get a better ride with ajustability". This is my shop truck and daily driver. I want the cool low stance, but with driveability. With cut coils it rides pretty stiff. What I'm wondering is, will bags give it a more comfortable ride? I'll be adding sway bars for better handling. Can you explain the physics of bags? Larger dia = softer ride, smaller dia = less psi, optimum size front and rear, etc etc... Thanks for any help.

Aaron

[Scott68-93-97]

Bags will definatly help the ride comfort out I would recommend either the ES-72 slam specialties bags or the 7200 series firestone or conitec, the 7200 pound bags are what you want to run on a full size. Yes the bigger the bag the more lift can be acheeved at less psi but when it gets to soft (Because of the low psi) ride quality takes a dive it will ride like your granma's cadillac with worn out shocks. running 6200 series bags will take alot to lift and be really stiff there more designed around an s10 or toyota something that size,I ran 8200's in the back of my 97 didn't really like the ride so I went to the 7200 which is what I am running in the front. And like I said before every bag has a recoommended ride height measured in length of stoke, that would be my starting point, if you don't like the ride modify the position of the bag. Drivability Ive been on bags for 5 years with no problems with the system just changes do to personal preference, 3 of those years the truck had 200+ miles a day put on it.

[67Fleet]

Aaron, I highly recommend the Slam RE7's. Just about everyone else on here that owns them will agree. They ride awesome, and have an internal bumpstop which the other aforementioned bags don't. I was super happy with the ride with mine. Up front I would just buy the upper plates, the bags, and get lower cups (cut them down to 1" or so) and simply replace your coil springs with that. Run 4 valves, I like 3/8" for fills and dumps. 3/8" is controllable. I'm even thinking about putting 3/8 x 1/4" bushings on my dumps so it dumps a little slower. 4 valves up front will prevent cross-leaking while cornering.

[Scott68-93-97]

The ES72 are the same bags as the RE7 just an extra layer of rubber 4 ply to 3 ply, the can handle more psi, and more durable. 67fleet they sell these filters that go on your dump valves there really quite and there ajustable so you can control the speed, I'll get the info on them for you.

[Frizzle Fry]

I second the SS RE7's. I have them on all 4 corners and they are excellent. You can see the install in my "tahoe" link. I also put front and rear sway bars in and I think I have achieved your goal: "Cadillac ride, Porshe handling, Drag car power" (with a 476 under the hood ). I also run KYB Gas-A-Just shocks.

Most guys on here will tell you that ***************** has the best prices and service, and I agree. You can get the plates/cups/bags/air management/etc all from them.

[67Fleet]

Originally Posted by Scott68-93-97

The ES72 are the same bags as the RE7 just an extra layer of rubber 4 ply to 3 ply, the can handle more psi, and more durable. 67fleet they sell these filters that go on your dump valves there really quite and there ajustable so you can control the speed, I'll get the info on them for you.

Yea, a couple of my buds have the filters, but I can get the bushings from my work for next to nothing.

[Tony@AirRideTech]

Scott pretty much nailed.... the common addage of bigger spring = less pressure = better ride.... more often than not when you over spring a vehicle they have an intial sloppy feel with an overly aggresive spring rate as the spring compresses. You need to run a spring that will have the proper spring rate to competantly control the full range of motion. With the Firestones on a 1/2, you should be looking at something like a F6781 (267C) in the rear and a F6873 (224C)in the front. If you are still planning on using that truck as a 3/4 ton then you could step up to a 6873 in the rear also. You would sacrifice a little bit of ride quality but not much......

[72 Cheyenne402]

Originally Posted by Tony@AirRideTech

Scott pretty much nailed.... the common addage of bigger spring = less pressure = better ride.... more often than not when you over spring a vehicle they have an intial sloppy feel with an overly aggresive spring rate as the spring compresses. You need to run a spring that will have the proper spring rate to competantly control the full range of motion. With the Firestones on a 1/2, you should be looking at something like a F6781 (267C) in the rear and a F6873 (224C)in the front. If you are still planning on using that truck as a 3/4 ton then you could step up to a 6873 in the rear also. You would sacrifice a little bit of ride quality but not much......

Hey Tony,

How much would it be for a rear bag setup. with or without compressor and tank on a 72 C10? No C-notch just

[Tony@AirRideTech]

The rear kit part#ARR21800 Sells at $425.00. You could get in touch with Nathan from Porterbuilt or even that douschbag Clint over at KP and they would probably make you a deal on it.

[Scott68-93-97]

Thanks Tony, you guys give any breaks to board members on your shock waves, love em they just cost serious $$$$$$.