any information

[dilbert]

hello well i have finally got a little money now that i have been working for little over 2 months lol it sucks being 15. i was wondering if you guys have any information on this truck like lift and tire size owner. thanks for the help.

[vtblazer]

It's Greg72's blazer.
The pics was taken at his old place in CA.
He now lives in NH.

Truck had a 396, soon to be a 502.
Auto tranny, no doubler, 4:11 gears.
The tires are 38.5 Super Swamper TSL's.
The wheels are recentered H1's
The lift is a 6" Alcan spring.
I believe he's running a ORD shackle flip out back.

Nuff info for ya?

You could pm him here or look him up over on CK5.
Easier to find him on CK% where he's a mod.

[LUV2XCLR8]

It looks pretty mean

[72BlckButy]

looks like it could go about anywhere.

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by 72BlckButy

looks like it could go about anywhere.

I guess you missed the part where it say's, "no doubler w/4:11 gears"

[-Greg72]

Sup guys!

Yeah that's my truck alright. As pictured it had a 396/TH350/NP205 combo and a D60/14BFF axle combo with 4.10 gears. Front lift is from a 4" set of Alcans (designed by ORD) and the rear is a stock set of '89K5 springs with a shackleflip and a custom length (longer) shackle that I built. The truck also sits on a 2" body lift. Wheels are a standard wagon wheel (16.5" x 9.75") with about 2.75" of backspace and are wrapped with a set of 38.5 x 16.0 x 16.5" Swamper TSLs.

Winter plans involve swapping in the previously mentioned 502, a TH400 tranny and an Atlas4 t-case with 5.44:1 reduction. I'm keeping the 4.10s for their highway friendly manners and strength (relative to, say 5.13s). I'll have plenty of reduction for offroad crawling with the Atlas box. I'm ditching the bodylift, and moving the entire driveline back a few inches further than stock....so yeah, I've got some serious firewall fabrication to do!

I don't get to this site much, but if you have more questions just post up again.....since I'll get the email notification now. Or send an email to: gregblanchette@gmail.com

Happy New Year guys.

[jaros44sr]

I know your real good at math, and I've heard you mention this before. What would your crawl ratio be at the tires, optimum being around 120, right? (38.5x5.44:1)=B+?~ I don't know school me

Any plans to make Rausch this year? Great looking truck, how far are you moving the drive train back? J.

[-Greg72]

Originally Posted by jaros44sr

I know your real good at math, and I've heard you mention this before. What would your crawl ratio be at the tires, optimum being around 120, right? (38.5x5.44:1)=B+?~ I don't know school me

Any plans to make Rausch this year? Great looking truck, how far are you moving the drive train back? J.

Overall crawl ratio will be 110.63 with the new setup. Tire diameter is not one of the numbers used in the calc BTW.

The nice part is being able to let that BBC loaf along at highway speeds without an OD tranny. The mild axle ratio is what allows for that....BUT it takes a big motor to make the truck still move off the line, so the jury is still out on that one. The 502 was built to maximize bottom-end torque and will put out over 600 Lb/Ft of torque off idle....that should do the trick.

My #1 objective with the new driveline is to raise the transfercase so that it doesn't hang below the framerails. On a 1st Gen K5, that's not an easy assignment. They normally hang at least 6 inches lower than that... As I raise the T-case, my front driveline angle is getting steeper too. So I need to move the engine back to lengthen the front d-shaft and decrease the angle somewhat. Having the engine weight baised more toward the middle of the truck has other obvious advantages when 4-wheeling also.

This isn't going to be a fast swap, but it IS going to be enormously satisfying to build and figure out. I don't want to rush through it, since I get so much enjoyment from the build process.....perhaps more than the actual "wheeling" portion.

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by -Greg72

Sup guys!

Yeah that's my truck alright. As pictured it had a 396/TH350/NP205 combo and a D60/14BFF axle combo with 4.10 gears. Front lift is from a 4" set of Alcans (designed by ORD) and the rear is a stock set of '89K5 springs with a shackleflip and a custom length (longer) shackle that I built. The truck also sits on a 2" body lift. Wheels are a standard wagon wheel (16.5" x 9.75") with about 2.75" of backspace and are wrapped with a set of 38.5 x 16.0 x 16.5" Swamper TSLs.

Winter plans involve swapping in the previously mentioned 502, a TH400 tranny and an Atlas4 t-case with 5.44:1 reduction. I'm keeping the 4.10s for their highway friendly manners and strength (relative to, say 5.13s). I'll have plenty of reduction for offroad crawling with the Atlas box. I'm ditching the bodylift, and moving the entire driveline back a few inches further than stock....so yeah, I've got some serious firewall fabrication to do!

I don't get to this site much, but if you have more questions just post up again.....since I'll get the email notification now. Or send an email to: gregblanchette@gmail.com

Happy New Year guys.

Okay, so I guessed a little...

[jaros44sr]

Originally Posted by jaros44sr

I know your real good at math, and I've heard you mention this before. What would your crawl ratio be at the tires, optimum being around 120, right? (38.5x5.44:1)=B+?~ I don't know school me
Exactly, that's why I thought you might give me the formula J.

Originally Posted by -Greg72

Overall crawl ratio will be 110.63 with the new setup. Tire diameter is not one of the numbers used in the calc BTW.

The nice part is being able to let that BBC loaf along at highway speeds without an OD tranny. The mild axle ratio is what allows for that....BUT it takes a big motor to make the truck still move off the line, so the jury is still out on that one. The 502 was built to maximize bottom-end torque and will put out over 600 Lb/Ft of torque off idle....that should do the trick.

My #1 objective with the new driveline is to raise the transfercase so that it doesn't hang below the framerails. On a 1st Gen K5, that's not an easy assignment. They normally hang at least 6 inches lower than that... As I raise the T-case, my front driveline angle is getting steeper too. So I need to move the engine back to lengthen the front d-shaft and decrease the angle somewhat. Having the engine weight baised more toward the middle of the truck has other obvious advantages when 4-wheeling also.

This isn't going to be a fast swap, but it IS going to be enormously satisfying to build and figure out. I don't want to rush through it, since I get so much enjoyment from the build process.....perhaps more than the actual "wheeling" portion.

Good luck on your build, sounds interesting. Post up pics, pls. How about using the "moog style" rearends, isn't the pinion off the top of it?

[-Greg72]

Sorry.... didn't know you really wanted the calc. It's pretty straightforward math. Here you go:

1st Gear ratio X transfercase ratio x rear axle ratio = Crawl Ratio

For an automatic, you usually double the ratio of the 1st Gear (for a TH400 with a 2.48 gear, I use 4.96) this allows for slippage of the TC at low RPM which effectively gives you a deeper ratio (less turns of the tires for a given engine RPM)

In my example:

TH400 x Atlas4 x 4.10s
= 4.96 x 5.44 x 4.10
= 110.62:1 crawl ratio

And as you noted, that's just about perfect for a 38" tire with a 120" circumference.

I think you're talking about Mog axles when you talk of the higher pinion? The Mogs use a portal-style housing which raises the pinion relative to the wheel centerline. Very cool.... I bought a set already that I intend to use (Phase 2). Unfortunately, the axle ratio is a real ball-buster (7.56:1) for the highway it's almost unmanageable. The only solution I could come up with was to use a really deep 50% overdrive transmission (T56 from a Dodge Viper)...so I bought one of those as well (the tranny, not the car!) and have that sitting next to the Mogs for now also.

The other problem with Mogs, is that the axle tubes being so high creates a LOT of interference problems with the frame. The solution is to go full tube chassis or lift the truck really high to get the clearance needed to flex. I'm going with the full-custom chassis route......more time, more $$$. So you'll have to be a little patient if you want to see my photos of that setup.


.

[bouncytruck]

Greg, didn't you increase the wheel openings for more clearance too?

[jaros44sr]

Can you 'C' notch the frame front, there is nothing there other than your bump stop and engine crossmember

Thanks for the info.

[-Greg72]

Originally Posted by jaros44sr

Can you 'C' notch the frame front, there is nothing there other than your bump stop and engine crossmember

Thanks for the info.

I suppose so....but remember the springs are going to be sitting on a higher alxetube location (about 6" higher than normal) so unless you convert to a spring-under mounting system the truck is still going to be sitting high.

By the time I get the Mogs installed, I'll be running a 4-link suspension too....so there won't be much use for the frame that is ahead of the motor mounts anyway.

[jaros44sr]

Originally Posted by -Greg72

I suppose so....but remember the springs are going to be sitting on a higher alxetube location (about 6" higher than normal) so unless you convert to a spring-under mounting system the truck is still going to be sitting high.

By the time I get the Mogs installed, I'll be running a 4-link suspension too....so there won't be much use for the frame that is ahead of the motor mounts anyway.

Sounds like you got it all planned out...interesting!

[dilbert]

so if i convert over to 3/4 ton axles and 4.56 gears will i still be having problems with everyday driving and 4 wheeling. also if i run 38 inch tires with stock axles will i have a problem? how much trimming did you have to do on your fenders.

p.s. if you have more pics please put them up i love this truck

[-Greg72]

Originally Posted by dilbert

so if i convert over to 3/4 ton axles and 4.56 gears will i still be having problems with everyday driving and 4 wheeling. also if i run 38 inch tires with stock axles will i have a problem? how much trimming did you have to do on your fenders.

p.s. if you have more pics please put them up i love this truck

Drivability depends on what you are willing to spin for RPMs on the highway, and how fast you expect to cruise. 4.10s on the highway run about 2300RPM at 65MPH. That's about as fast as I feel comfortable driving it... if you run 4.56s, you'd be at about 2600RPM instead. If you're running a small block, that's not an issue but for a big block those revs are getting too high and you're going to be guzzling a lot of fuel also.

38's on stock axles are a mistake. I know it's a "cool" look, but 38's add a LOT of weight and stress on the driveline and you really should be using 1-Ton axles by the time to step up to 38's. Keep your maximum tire size at 35-36" and you can do pretty well on 1/2-Ton axles. You'll break a lot less parts and save money too. You may still break inner /outer shafts on the D44 even with 35-36" tires depending on how you wheel and if you have lockers installed. Lockers add stress and will help you break more parts.

Trimming is required. Lots of trimming if you don't want much lift. I've got about 7" of lift for 38's and the fenders (especially the fronts) needed a lot of metal removed. Odds are good that you'll lose your inner fenderwells up front if you flex well.

Basically, my advice is to take your time and let the truck evolve slowly...I went from 35's on 1/2 Ton axles....to 3/4-Ton on 36's.....to 38's on 1-Tons. I've had the truck for about 6 years now.


1/2-Ton Axles with 35's:



3/4-Ton Axles with 36's:




1-Ton Axles with 38's:

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by -Greg72

my advice is to take your time and let the truck evolve slowly.

Follow that advice and you'll be way ahead of the game.

To add:
Driveability changes drastically as tire size increases too.

It's alot tougher to create a dual purpose truck than most can even fathom in the beginning of their initial build up.
Achieving "great" in either aspect is damn near impossible, if you can get it to "good", you've done well IMO.

[dilbert]

so how much lift will i need to clear 35's and still have good flex. also there are alot of k5's around my house that run like 12 inches of lift with 39.5 and have very little trimming. is this just because they have so much lift there running 3/4 ton axles and have never broke is this because they only run through mud or because there lucky

[-Greg72]

Originally Posted by dilbert

so how much lift will i need to clear 35's and still have good flex. also there are alot of k5's around my house that run like 12 inches of lift with 39.5 and have very little trimming. is this just because they have so much lift there running 3/4 ton axles and have never broke is this because they only run through mud or because there lucky

Your thinking is on the right track.... 12" of lift is going to be a stiff ride, so there's not much chance of getting flex out of the springs. Even with the small amount they get, the truck is so stupid-far away from the tires that it will never rub the fenders either.

From the description, it sounds like most of the wheeling where you are is mud? If that's true, you can build differently than if you want more technical wheeling capability. You're friends are probably getting away with 3/4-ton setups because they don't run a locker up front. Having an open diff allows the axle to "bleed off" a lot of power to the spinning wheel and that helps to prevent breakage. Of course, having an open diff does very little to help you get through the mud pit either.

Personally, I'd stay away from 12" lift.... it more for "looks" than for function and it makes the truck really unstable for most types of wheeling (except mud)

Go with 38's on 3/4-ton axles if you must, but understand that there will be breakage up front (especially if you add a locker).

[dilbert]

yah 38's are out of the question now. from what ive been reading on pirate and stuff im just gonna run 35 tsl's. yah most of the wheeling that the kids do around here is mud with a few that go to naches and reiter and evans every once in a while.

[vtblazer]

Originally Posted by dilbert

so how much lift will i need to clear 35's and still have good flex. also there are alot of k5's around my house that run like 12 inches of lift with 39.5 and have very little trimming. is this just because they have so much lift there running 3/4 ton axles and have never broke is this because they only run through mud or because there lucky

A 6" lift will work fine for wheelin' with 35's.
You can even keep the inner fenders too.

12"s of lift is pretty much useless, except for running mud of course.
Totally top heavy big time and won't flex for shat.

38's and 3/4 ton axles that have never busted can only mean two thing's...lack of trying or lack of hourse power.

[dilbert]

lol i doubt it lack of horse power, lol 2 of the kids built 454's and one has a 502 lol there just trailer queens till they get to the mud hole and when they were drove on the street they broke everywere