Intake gaskets questions.

[Sport/Truck]

I’m ready to put on the intake, I using the fel-pro print o seal gaskets. I plan on using gasket cinch on the head side of the gasket & head, but plan on smearing a thin coat of RTV around the water jackets.
Do I need anything on the intake side around the water jackets? Or does the print o seal work good enough?

The Elelbrock instructions says to apply gasket cinch on the intake too but leave the intake side of the gasket dry.

s/t

[Billla]

I don't use anything at all on the intake gaskets in terms of Gasgacinch with FelPro gaskets (FYI: anything other than FelPro gaskets are garbage IMHO)

Lay a very thin (1/16") bead (not smear) of RTV around the coolant passages on the head and then on top of the gasket to seal with the intake manifold.

You don't mention this, but you know not to use the front/rear intake gaskets, right? Just a good 1/4" or so bead of RTV, and then scrape off and smooth the excess with your finger after the manifold is torqued down.

If you've never done this before it's worth planning ahead a bit as everything has to come together fairly quickly. Have everything laid out with the bolts in the right order, torque wrench set, wrench for the 4 inner bolts - and a few towels to clean stuff up.

The order is:

1. Thin (1/16) bead of RTV around coolant passages in the head
2. Lay down the gaskets and initially align with bolt holes
3. Lay down a thin bead of RTV around coolant passages on the gasket
4. Lay down a 1/4" thick bead of RTV front and rear, including a "goober" in the corners to connect to the bottom of the intake gasket.
5. Holding the manifold by the carb platform, GENTLY set it in place
6. Thread in the 4 outermost bolts to align, then all the rest.
7. Make an initial pass, using the torque pattern, to snug everything down
8. Torque the manifold using the torque pattern.
9. Carefully wipe up all the RTV that's squeezed out
10. LET IT SIT - the temptation is to retorque the bolts or something else - don't until after warmup, and then retorque.

[wibilly]

don't forget the rtv on the bolt threads to prevent seapage of oil and or coolant

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by Billla

I don't use anything at all on the intake gaskets in terms of Gasgacinch with FelPro gaskets (FYI: anything other than FelPro gaskets are garbage IMHO)

Lay a very thin (1/16") bead (not smear) of RTV around the coolant passages on the head and then on top of the gasket to seal with the intake manifold.

You don't mention this, but you know not to use the front/rear intake gaskets, right? Just a good 1/4" or so bead of RTV, and then scrape off and smooth the excess with your finger after the manifold is torqued down.

If you've never done this before it's worth planning ahead a bit as everything has to come together fairly quickly. Have everything laid out with the bolts in the right order, torque wrench set, wrench for the 4 inner bolts - and a few towels to clean stuff up.

The order is:

1. RTV around coolant passages in the head
2. Lay down the gaskets and initially align with bolt holes
3. Lay down RTV around coolant passages on the gasket
4. Lay down thick bead of RTV front and rear
5. Holding the manifold by the carb platform, GENTLY set it in place
6. Thread in the 4 outermost bolts to align, then all the rest.
7. Make an initial pass, using the torque pattern, to snug everything down
8. Torque the manifold using the torque pattern.
9. Carefully wipe up all the RTV that's squeezed out
10. LET IT SIT - the temptation is to retorque the bolts or something else - don't

Nice write up Bill.
So you put RTV on both sides of the gasket at the water ports?

wibilly- yes was planing on dong that.
Thanks for checking!

s/t

[Billla]

Originally Posted by wibilly

don't forget the rtv on the bolt threads to prevent seapage of oil and or coolant

NOT RTV - thread sealant. Big difference, and RTV will not seal as it's not made for fastners.

[Billla]

Originally Posted by Sport/Truck

Nice write up Bill.
So you put RTV on both sides of the gasket at the water ports?

Thanks, hope it helps - getting the intake on right is critical, and after doing it a couple of hundred times (sometimes in the car ) I've learned it's all about prep and organization.

Yes, a thin bead on the head, set the gasket in place and then a thin bead on the intake side of the gasket.

On the front and rear beads, make sure you put an extra little goober in the corners - the most likely place for a leak.

[chris71]

the rtv on the intake side of the gasket helps to keep the gaskets from moving around too much when you are putting on the intake and laying the beads front and rear.

[pumpkin]

Felpro spent a lot of time designing and engineering there gaskest. I don't put anything on them. Just stick them to the head, at a non sealing point, with 3M weather stripping glue. A bead of silicone for the ends and bolt down the manifold right away, before the silicone skins over. The intake will walk around with haeting and cooling, especialy with an aluminum manifold. Any extra sealant, around pasages will just shorten the life of the seal.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by pumpkin

Felpro spent a lot of time designing and engineering there gaskest. I don't put anything on them. Just stick them to the head, at a non sealing point, with 3M weather stripping glue. A bead of silicone for the ends and bolt down the manifold right away, before the silicone skins over. The intake will walk around with haeting and cooling, especialy with an aluminum manifold. Any extra sealant, around pasages will just shorten the life of the seal.

Thats some good points.
Fel-pro says to use high tac on a few spots to hold it to the head (I only asked about iron heads) then stick it on.

Edelbrock says to put high tac all over the head & gasket, let tack up put on the gaskets, then put high tac on the intake and install before it tacks up.

Now who do you trust as far as engineering goes?
I think I'll start a poll.
s/t

[pumpkin]

I would trust the gasket maker, or the vehicle manufacturer. Even though edelbrock makes a great product, they may be trying to prevent imediate problems, with the sacrifice of a longer gasket life. I have a buddy who races 1/4 mile. He is alwats trying new and modified intake manifolds. He figures he gets about 6 to 10 manifold changes to one set of felpro gaskets. He sticks em to the block, and puts a very light coating of grease on the manifold side. He seems to have good luck with it,,,,,,,, but I'm not that adveturous.

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by pumpkin

I would trust the gasket maker, or the vehicle manufacturer. Even though edelbrock makes a great product, they may be trying to prevent imediate problems, with the sacrifice of a longer gasket life.

Thats a good point.
Thanks,
s/t

[Billla]

I kinda hate "arguing" this stuff, and I get a bit cranky - so bear with me.

Millions of people have been building GEN I's for a five decades, and it's become very clear what works - and what doesn't. Completely agree regarding starting with the manufacturer's suggestions - and deviating only when experience proves the need - and also that engineering changes over time. At the same time, consider that most of these intake manifold sets come with the front and rear rubber valley seals...and we KNOW (for sure) that these don't work. Look in any SBC overhaul book and see what's recommended here...it's going to look very familiar.

An intake MUST move around a bit as it's torqued down, this is why I'm opposed to anything that tries to hold the gasket in place. RTV is a flexible seal exactly for that reason.

The FelPro "PermaSeal" beads in the gasket around the water passages need a little help in my experience. This is due to the slight misalignment of angles between the intake and heads - the shop will typically take at least a "clean up" cut of .003 or so from the block and heads, but usually won't ask to cut the manifold unless there's a total of .025 combined from the block and heads. This leaves a little misalignment that the VERY THIN RTV bead ensures doesn't result in a coolant leak into the cam valley.

Finally, street installation is very different than race installation (broken record for me). A small vacuum leak in a racing engine running at high RPM isn't a big deal, whereas in a street engine it results in a poor idle and reduced fuel economy. On a street engine you're going to install the intake *once*, not make "6-10 intake manifold changes". I'll lay a $20 on the bench and bet that if you don't put a goober of RTV in the corners you'll have an intake leak within 10K miles.

I'm usually not a "one way - my way" kind of guy, but if you do a search you'll find two things. 1) the most common street SBC tuning problem is an intake vacuum or coolant leak and 2) the approach I use is the most commonly recommended approach to intake installation.

[stope4]

what about original intakes on BB?

[JayDubBlazer]

Thats some good info, thanks guys i'll be doing that tomorrow

[Sport/Truck]

Originally Posted by Billla

I kinda hate "arguing" this stuff, and I get a bit cranky - so bear with me.

Millions of people have been building GEN I's for a five decades, and it's become very clear what works - and what doesn't. Completely agree regarding starting with the manufacturer's suggestions - and deviating only when experience proves the need - and also that engineering changes over time. At the same time, consider that most of these intake manifold sets come with the front and rear rubber valley seals...and we KNOW (for sure) that these don't work. Look in any SBC overhaul book and see what's recommended here...it's going to look very familiar.

An intake MUST move around a bit as it's torqued down, this is why I'm opposed to anything that tries to hold the gasket in place. RTV is a flexible seal exactly for that reason.

The FelPro "PermaSeal" beads in the gasket around the water passages need a little help in my experience. This is due to the slight misalignment of angles between the intake and heads - the shop will typically take at least a "clean up" cut of .003 or so from the block and heads, but usually won't ask to cut the manifold unless there's a total of .025 combined from the block and heads. This leaves a little misalignment that the VERY THIN RTV bead ensures doesn't result in a coolant leak into the cam valley.

Finally, street installation is very different than race installation (broken record for me). A small vacuum leak in a racing engine running at high RPM isn't a big deal, whereas in a street engine it results in a poor idle and reduced fuel economy. On a street engine you're going to install the intake *once*, not make "6-10 intake manifold changes". I'll lay a $20 on the bench and bet that if you don't put a goober of RTV in the corners you'll have an intake leak within 10K miles.

I'm usually not a "one way - my way" kind of guy, but if you do a search you'll find two things. 1) the most common street SBC tuning problem is an intake vacuum or coolant leak and 2) the approach I use is the most commonly recommended approach to intake installation.

Thanks for "arguing" your point....
I'm glad you took the time to explain this. I've got everything to get this put on this weekend. I was wondering why Edelbrock wanted so much sealant, just seemed excessive.
Thanks,
s/t