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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ben Lomond California
Posts: 5
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Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Just got my '69 C20! Driving it is great. And then I tried to stop..... Woah. Now I know what eveyone's been talking about --- drum brakes bad!
Obviously replacing the drums with disks is my first priority. But I'm on a super tight budget. What is the best cheapest way to go? Aftermarket? Manufacture's upgrade kit? Or canibalizing a latter model -- and if so, what is a good source for locating said parts? Thanks! |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Topeka,KS
Posts: 778
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Just did this on my 68C20. Bought a front stub off a 81. They just cut the frame rails aft of the crossmember. And gave me everything. $150.
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#3 |
Next project: 1970 K10
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fort Collins, Colo 80524
Posts: 6,685
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
GM started using front discs on the 71 models, so any of the OEM parts off of an 71-87 (?) 3/4 ton should be good.
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Bob 1970 Chevy K10 LWB "Goldie" 350/TH350 next project!! 1981 Chevy C10 LWB 355/TH350 - My son's truck LS SWAP FORUM! Tons of LS swap info here! PLEASE CLICK HERE TO SUPPORT THE GREATEST BOARD ON THE NET! CLICK HERE FOR THE FAQ INDEX by KRUE |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Kunsan AB, South Korea
Posts: 187
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
The cheapest way to improve stopping is to flush the brake fluid and check the drums for excessive wear. If that is not good enough, then parts of a '71-72 and you will have discs. I highely recommend you get a master booster for the disks and it is really a night-and-day difference.
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1971 C-10, 406ci, restoration begun! 406ci sb; zero decked, bored .030, edelbrock aluminum e-tec heads, edelbrock performer RPM intake, comp 268 cam, comp 1.6 pro-magnum roller rockers, MSD street fire HEI, MSD 8.5mm wires, Holley Street demon 770, Hedman LT headers. 10.6:1 compression, Air Ride Tech bags on all 4-corners. |
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: daytonabeach
Posts: 22,956
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
cheapest route would be a comprehensive brake job to really see what you've got and maybe some driving instructions from somebody that knows how to drive vintage vehicles
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71c-10 350/2004r/4:11 lowered3/4 longbed/dead by hurricane MEANING OF DEATH::::: SOMEBODY ELSE GETS YOUR STUFF DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK TAKE MY ADVISE;I DON'T USE IT ANYWAY |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mundelein, IL
Posts: 862
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
I have 4 wheel drum on a 67 4x4. In it's former lif I drove it as manual brakes (made no adjustments at all) and yeah, it wasn't great. Now, I simply made a 1" slug so the pin from a 72 booster would push my 67 manual MC, all new lines, and fuild, front wheels cylinders and it's night and day. I attribute it almost exclusively to the booster, as I still have the half worn pads in there!! Truck stops awesome now!!
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time is inversely proportional to money; that's why it takes me so long 1967 K10 1967 Camaro Last edited by 67mater; 12-03-2008 at 03:49 PM. |
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#8 |
Resident of Here
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL, USA
Posts: 7,716
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Because when they brake you can make music!
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~Bradley~ 2004 Black GTO LS2/T56 too much to list ![]() Miss having a truck ![]() |
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#9 |
its all about the +6 inches
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hilliard Ohio
Posts: 2,693
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Adjust and clean the drum brakes, and learn to stay off people's bumpers, and you'll be fine. No, they aren't ideal nor even close to perfect, but there are advantages to them.
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#10 |
Between Trucks...
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Posts: 3,830
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Try bleeding your system. I got drums on my '69 C-20 and stops just fine.
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Beat it to fit, Paint it to match... ![]() |
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#11 |
its all about the +6 inches
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Hilliard Ohio
Posts: 2,693
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
they aren't as good as disks... esp in stop and go traffic... however, the c/20 drums are friggen huge, and in proper form, are quite capible of stopping the truck. Remember, the speed limit was 60 - 80 MPH when these were built... they were designed to stop the truck, fully loaded, within federal standards, with drums.
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#12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ben Lomond California
Posts: 5
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Quote:
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#13 |
English Chevy Owner
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shropshire, UK/ Lot, France
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Nope drums are way more prone to fading than disks as they don't cool as well. I know a lot of the hot rod guys running drums do some clever stuff with the back-plates and little air scoops and drilling holes to get more air through and finned drums also help dissipte heat bit the fact is they're a damn great chunk of iron thats going to stay hot much longer than a vented disk.
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Phil '67 C10 long fleet. 350/TH350, 4 bbl Carter, K&N, Dual exhaust, loads of stuff coming soon 2001 S10 Blazer Daily Driver, bone stock 4 door 4x4 with manual transmission |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ben Wheeler,Texas
Posts: 992
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
I agree, wheel cylinders and new shoes and check your drums for heavy wear. If you completely replaced all your drum brake parts with new and drove it, you would be happy with the stopping power.
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05 2500HD 6.0 excab 69 LWB-Gone but not forgotten! 68 Dodge Charger 383/727 69 Dodge Charger-440/4spd |
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#15 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ben Lomond California
Posts: 5
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Quote:
Last edited by Deathvalleydog; 12-04-2008 at 01:10 PM. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Crossville Tn
Posts: 14
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I was using the "pump pump pray" system on my '68, it usually stopped well. A few lock ups and scares but no "accidents"
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Jet Blue 68 |
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#17 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,646
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Quote:
Back on topic, the front discs on my '72 are vented... I think discs from the front of any GM C/K20 will be vented, so they shouldn't be too hard to find.
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#18 |
Built 4 Speed
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Geneva FL
Posts: 619
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
well you can do the 72+ conversion for rotors up front but it makes it 5 lug... disks in the back alot more work and no where near as cheap then you will have to get a new master cylinder because your stock one wont push enuff fluid. i personally like the corvette 4 wheel disk i think 1972 master cyl 1 1/8" its a beast.
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1969 C/10 Short Box: 496/T-56 in worx. ![]() "To Be Old And Wise, First You Must Be Young And Stupid" |
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#19 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ben Lomond California
Posts: 5
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Quote:
Do they make a conversion kit for eight lug? I've got nice eight lug rims I'd like to keep but every conversion kit I've found is five. (BTW are you on the CA side or the OR side of Jefferson? Or perhaps folks from the State of Jefferson don't differentiate?) Last edited by Deathvalleydog; 12-04-2008 at 09:19 PM. |
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#20 | |
20' Daredevil (Ret)
![]() Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 13,646
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Quote:
![]() Born & raised in Oregon, now living in NorCal. In fact, it's more like Oregon here than most parts of Oregon are! ![]()
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- Mike - 1972 K20 LWB 350/350/205 RIP El Jay |
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#21 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ozark, MO
Posts: 4,887
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
4 wheel discs are nice, but there is nothing wrong at all with a disc/drum set-up. GM used rear discs on full size trucks a couple of years ago and now they are back to drums if that tells you anything.
Rebuilding drums is cheap, if you're on a tight budget then rebuild them with new wheel cylinders, shoes, springs, adjusters, and turn the drums. Put new pads in the front and turn the rotors if necessary. Flush the whole system if you're comfortable doing so (follow master cylinder bench bleeding to a T). If you're still not happy then check the booster. My '71 stops as good as my '08.
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'20 Silverado Trail Boss ~ '17 Tahoe ~ '79 K15 Sierra Grande ~ '76 Blazer 2wd ~ '71 Cheyenne swb ~ '55 Pontiac Safari ~'50 3100 bagged ~ '80 Wife ~ Late model kids
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#22 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 765
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
I have just completed a disc conversion on a 65 C20 (which is for all intensive purposes the same as our 67-72). We used front end components off of a 77 R20 (suburban for those not in the know) It had the 8 on 6 pattern. Tony with Texas Squarebodies sold us the front frame section (cab forward) for $150.
When doing this on a 67-72 you can swap the whole cross member and control arms, but the C/R 20 and 30's use the same solid bushings on the control arms so unless your bushings are bad, use your original arms. You have to change the upper and lower ball joints to 73-87 C20 units to mount the spindles. steering linkage is a little more fun. The tapers in the spindles are a different size on the later model stuff so either swap in a powersteering gearbox and all the steering components from a donor or you can use the factory steering from the 67-72's but you have to obtain the conversion sleeves from one of the vendors here on the board so you can adapt the 73-87 outer tierods onto the older linkage. Keep in mind when converting to discs you also have to install a dual resivior master cylinder and a disc/drum proportioning valve. (front and rear are two seperate hydraulic circuits) you will use brake hoses from your donor truck and they mount infront of the upper control arm not behind like our 67-72's. you may have to bend some brake lines. Spence
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The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? |
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#23 |
English Chevy Owner
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Shropshire, UK/ Lot, France
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Its not neccesarily about stopping power though. Whilst drums all round can be made to stop well they don't perform well under hard continuous use as they will fade as things heat up and gases build up under the shoes. I have manual drum/drum brakes and with a good healthy shove they stop pretty well although I am about to fit a booster. In this guys situatiojn with a long winding downhill run I'd go for disks anytime
Have a read up on fade here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fade
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Phil '67 C10 long fleet. 350/TH350, 4 bbl Carter, K&N, Dual exhaust, loads of stuff coming soon 2001 S10 Blazer Daily Driver, bone stock 4 door 4x4 with manual transmission |
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#24 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 765
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
Lippy is very much correct.
The problem with drum brakes is their heat dissipating capabilty there is just not enough air flow through, over and around drum brakes to cool them enough under severe use. As stated earlier a lot of the hot rod/streetrod world has used finned rotors, holes drillled into the backing plates with air scoops, and I have even seen drums drilled on the hub surface to allow airflow. I have seen some in my opinion very dangerous things done also, ( I am a dealer trained Technician, And master ASE certified for 20+ years) I have seen drums actually drilled though the braking surface for ventilation( good concept but I would worry about the metalurgical structure after many heating and cooling cycles) This link has some good info except for the idea of drilling the drums as I stated abovehttp://wps.com/AMC/1963-Rambler-American/Drums/ Here is a picture of a ventilated racing drum brake assemblies and othershttp://www.automedia.com/How_to_keep...es20051101db/1 Personally I would convert to discs, they are much more efficient. Spence
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The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself? |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ben Lomond California
Posts: 5
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Re: Brakes! Brakes! Brakes!
That sounds like a good way to go. Besides a 77, what year models of Suburbans will work? I assume I'll have to call around local wrecking yards to find one. Or is there a better source? I live in CA on the central coast.
Last edited by Deathvalleydog; 12-07-2008 at 03:27 PM. |
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