Air bag/crossmember/laying frame/ball joint question....help

[liljimsrodragz]

Alright So I assembled all of my suspension for mock up after sectioning the crossmember 1.25 inches. I have no springs, shocks or bags in place; I just dropped it on the ground with a jack and the crossmember still sits about 4 inches off the ground. I looked for where it was bottoming out at and as far as I can tell the ball joints are at the end of there travel. I plan on "Z-ing" the frame three inches but from what I can figure that still wont lay that frame on the ground because of those ball joints. Whats the deal?

[Painter D]

Do you have drop spindles?

[N2TRUX]

bumpstops?

[liljimsrodragz]

I do not have the drop spindles but I do have oldschool 2" stepped a-arms. I am positive that its the ball joints that are the problem. What am I doing wrong? Those drop spindles would only give me another inch since they cant be used together.

And no the bumpstops are taken out.

[chevychase]

Maybe you should try posting some pictures of the suspension so others may spot the problem.

[mycool72]

Mines the same way in the front but I left the bumpstop brackets on...it will go lower when I cut them out

[smashingchuck]

are you running a lower cup?

[Twisted Minis]

I think you should stick with one thread to answer all of your questions, instead of a new one every day.

If you sectioned the crossmember you should not have to Z the frame. All you need to do is get drop spindles and pie cut your upper control arms to adjust the balljoint angle.

[liljimsrodragz]

No I am not running cups, I have nothing in the a arms for the suspension yet. I have no bump stops either.

Oh sorry, I am new to the whole forum thing so I thought I should start a new one for differant topics. But I will do that from now on. Dont want to be a pest.

Anyways, sectioning the crossmember 1.25 inches was not nearly enough. What is pie cutting the a arms?

[Twisted Minis]

Originally Posted by liljimsrodragz

Anyways, sectioning the crossmember 1.25 inches was not nearly enough. What is pie cutting the a arms?

My friend had one at 1.5" and the truck laid flat on a 27.5" tire. You really need drop spindles though. I don't think you will be able to figure it out without them.


Here's a link to pie cutting control arms.
http://www.twistedminis.com/SMF/index.php?topic=24.0

[scotts62]

Link no worky..

[liljimsrodragz]

The link worked fine for me. I see what you are talking about but how does that change the way it rides?

As far as the drop spindles, they cant be used with the stepped a-arms can they? If not then the drop spindles are not an option as I just pressed brand new ball joints into them. Besides thats only another inch. That still will not solve all my problems. Other people have had to of run into this problem before too?

[Twisted Minis]

Pie cutting the arms does nothing to change the ride. It changes your ball joint angle so they are not binding and holding your vehicle off the ground.

As far as dropped arms, I am not sure if they can be used with drop spindles. But drop arms are not a good thing for bagged vehicles. They do fine with static, but on a bagged vehicle it generally creates more issues than it solves. All it does is push your spindle up, which also pushes your upper arm and tire rods up at the same time. They will just bind faster. A drop spindle alleviates these issues.

[liljimsrodragz]

HMMM....so am I better off running stock arms rather then the stepped ones? Without the drop spindles though? I cant afford the 250 bucks for them.

I got to thinking about other variables that I could change and I dont know why wheel and tire height didnt cross my mind before. I measured 29.5 inches so I let all the air out and now at 25.5 inches tall it will lay the a-arms on the ground. But the longest flat section that runs under the cab is still about 3-3.5 inches from the ground. So now thy question is to "Z" or not to "Z" ???


Also for those of you who are running twentys how tall are they with tires? Im looking for something under 25.5? Unless of course I "Z" it..... Also what width and backspacing are they?

Thanks!

[Twisted Minis]

You would be best to run stock arms with drop spindles. Thats really the best way to lay these trucks out. Otherwise you are going to hack up the frame and stock arms to get the truck where you want, and probably not be happy with it.

The truck above is on 20s with a 27.5" tire. It has stock arms with drop spindles and a 1" lower cup. Nothing else other than the sectioned cross member was done. You can get a 20" tire that is 25.25" tall, but it really is a very small tire.

If you already sectioned the cross member I would not Z the truck. When you are measuring the section under the cab, is the rear end of the truck laid out? If the rear is off the ground your measurement is not accurate.

My suggestion, since you can't afford the spindles, would be to set the suspension up so it bottoms out 2.5" off the ground, and save for the spindles.

[liljimsrodragz]

No the truck is still pretty jacked up in the back but I am measuring right before the kickup to the front suspension so my measurement is pretty close. It might be a little lower then three buts that measurement is pretty accurate.

Have a few questions about the rear though. While looking at the back...I noticed that the trailing arms look like they will hit the frame if lowered to much? Is this the case? whats the fix?

[Twisted Minis]

I have no experience with the stock trailing arms, so someone else will have to help you there. I just build 4-links to replace them.

I usually level the truck out on jack stands, and work the suspension with a jack, and use a tape measure to see if the suspension is compressing far enough. It will give you a more accurate measurement. Yours is probably off by an inch or more at this point.

[liljimsrodragz]

Thats why its nice to start new threads.

Anyways got any pics of how you set up a four link for the rear?

[liljimsrodragz]

???

[Twisted Minis]

Here is a bunch.

[lolife99]

Use the search feature.
There are MANY threads on trailing arms and all the problems associated with them NOT laying out.

[liljimsrodragz]

Awesome...do you build or buy the links? Where? or How,Pics?

[Twisted Minis]

Yes I build my own link bars. Buying them would be easier for the average guy. I am just picky about the way I make them, and I usually make them in ways they cannot readily be purchased.