Saginaw 3-speed manual trans acting funny

[Tantrix]

I recently got my '76 C10 long bed back on the road with the original 250ci and Saginaw 3-speed manual trans in it, and I'm having some problems.

The column shifter was shot, so I converted it over to a floor shifter with a Mr. Gasket 3-speed universal floor shifter (the only thing I could get locally). After about 50 miles or so, I flushed the gear oil out of the trans and topped it off with fresh gear oil.


It drives pretty good, however I'm having some shifting issues. 1st and reverse seem to want to "stick" sometimes. For example, I'm sitting at a red light out of gear, and when it turns green the truck won't want to go into 1st without having to force it, so I just go into 2nd and take off from there. Other times it will act just fine. Also, sometimes when putting the truck into 1st or reverse it will slightly grind a little before going into gear. 2nd and 3rd gears seem to work just fine. I can't quite figure out what it is, so I've narrowed it down to this:


1) Ditch the Mr. Gasket universal shifter and put in a Hurst Mastershift 3-speed floor shifter

2) Take it to a reputable transmission shop and have them take a look at the trans.

3) Take it to a reputable shop and have them look at the clutch.


Anyone have any ideas as to what is going on? Is my transmission dying, is the clutch not working properly, or is it the shifter?


Thanks in advance.

[old Chevy guy]

If it was ok before my money is on the shifter,is there any adjustment on that shifter?

[Restrorob]

Grinding and hard going into gear sounds to me like the clutch isn't disengaging fully, It may need adjusting or may be on the way out.

[Tantrix]

Originally Posted by old Chevy guy

If it was ok before my money is on the shifter,is there any adjustment on that shifter?

I don't know how it was before, as the column shifter was already busted up before I got it. I had to put the floor shifter in just to be able to drive it. The shifter has some adjustments, but I've tried just about every combination there is and 1st and reverse still act weird.

Originally Posted by Restrorob

Grinding and hard going into gear sounds to me like the clutch isn't disengaging fully, It may need adjusting or may be on the way out.

That's what I was thinking too at first, but since 2nd and 3rd gears usually slip right into place with no issues I was thinking the worst...a dying transmission. To be honest, all gears fight me a little when driving...it's just 1st and reverse that are the worst.

[S10Fan]

1st to Reverse, OK?

Reverse to 1st, OK?

2nd to 3rd, or 3rd to 2nd, OK?

If you answered yes to all three questions, my money is on the shifter.

My cheapo shifter did the same thing, huge PIA.

Jack it up (setup some jack stands PLEASE) have someone in the cab shifting while you are under the truck watching the linkage. Try and see where it's binding.

[Restrorob]

Originally Posted by Tantrix

That's what I was thinking too at first, but since 2nd and 3rd gears usually slip right into place with no issues I was thinking the worst...a dying transmission. To be honest, all gears fight me a little when driving...it's just 1st and reverse that are the worst.

1st and reverse is the worst because the truck is sitting stopped (not moving) 2nd and 3rd are being shifted while the truck is moving which would let them shift easier. Shifting to 2nd or 3rd while sitting stopped is easier than first or reverse because they are a larger/(higher) gear.

Still sounds like a clutch problem....

[Tantrix]

Originally Posted by Restrorob

1st and reverse is the worst because the truck is sitting stopped (not moving) 2nd and 3rd are being shifted while the truck is moving which would let them shift easier. Shifting to 2nd or 3rd while sitting stopped is easier than first or reverse because they are a larger/(higher) gear.

Still sounds like a clutch problem....

Yeah that's exactly the symptoms...while sitting still (clutch all the way down, foot on brake) moving shifter into 1st or reverse it will do one of three things:

1) Go into either gear smoothly (sometimes).
2) Grind for a second then go into either (grinds the most on reverse, but occasionally on 1st too).
3) Not want to go into either one (especially 1st) unless I give the shifter an extra tug.


Like you, I'm leaning towards the clutch also. It will be a few weeks before I can have a completely new clutch put in so I guess I'll drive it easy until then. I'll probably bring it to the best shop in town...normally I'd do it myself but I don't trust myself to do a clutch job on a 33 year old truck. I don't want to crack the thing open and get lost right in the middle of the job.


That is unless you guys can give me a complete walkthrough from start to finish of a clutch replacement on a Saginaw 3-speed manual.

[Mister laugh]

Originally Posted by Tantrix

Yeah that's exactly the symptoms...while sitting still (clutch all the way down, foot on brake) moving shifter into 1st or reverse it will do one of three things:

1) Go into either gear smoothly (sometimes).
2) Grind for a second then go into either (grinds the most on reverse, but occasionally on 1st too).
3) Not want to go into either one (especially 1st) unless I give the shifter an extra tug.


Like you, I'm leaning towards the clutch also. It will be a few weeks before I can have a completely new clutch put in so I guess I'll drive it easy until then. I'll probably bring it to the best shop in town...normally I'd do it myself but I don't trust myself to do a clutch job on a 33 year old truck. I don't want to crack the thing open and get lost right in the middle of the job.


That is unless you guys can give me a complete walkthrough from start to finish of a clutch replacement on a Saginaw 3-speed manual.

I don't know about your mechanical aptitude, but a clutch job is much more straightforward than most people make it out to be. If you know your way around these trucks at all i would suggest grabbing a book and trying it, but that is just my 2 cents.

[Restrorob]

Another thing to check, If the shift linkage was all worn out as you stated check ALL the clutch linkage for wear and try adjusting the clutch first....

I agree with Mister laugh, Do some reading then decide if you think you can handle the job. If you do go into it do NOT forget to replace the pilot bearing/bushing.

[73chevyman]

first how far you have to push the clutch in before it disengages the gears while comming to a stop if you have hardly any pedal left before you hit the foor then the clutch is going what it sounds like to me is clutch is starting to go but yea read before getting into it you don't won't to spend more money then needed cause you lost or broke something good luck

[Tantrix]

Originally Posted by 73chevyman

first how far you have to push the clutch in before it disengages the gears while comming to a stop if you have hardly any pedal left before you hit the foor then the clutch is going what it sounds like to me is clutch is starting to go but yea read before getting into it you don't won't to spend more money then needed cause you lost or broke something good luck

The clutch feels good really, it engages/disengages about halfway or so. I drove it again today, it felt better than it did the other day.

To be honest, I really don't trust that Mr Gasket shifter. It never feels the same every time I drive it...for some reason feels like it wants to hang up sometimes. I don't know if it needs a good greasing down there around the linkage or needs some fine tuning on the adjustments. I know it's not going to feel or perform like a Hurst, but I'd at least like to get it where it feels consistent.

This seems like it all started when I moved the shifter from the center to the rear-most mounting holes on the bracket so the shift levers would clear my new speedometer cable. Ever since then it's shifted weird.

I'll probably get outside tomorrow and try to fine-tune it one more time...maybe even put some bearing grease around all the moving parts down there.


Thanks for all the suggestions guys.

[Tantrix]

**Update**


Well...I tried everything I could with the shifter, and the problem is still there. I have figured out a way to replicate the problem though...read below and tell me what you guys think:

If I come to a red light and press the clutch in and pull towards 1st gear to downshift, when the truck slows down enough it will slip into 1st easily like normal. However, I have to sit there with the clutch to the floor and the other foot on the brake until the light turns green then let off the clutch and take off.

If I pop it out of gear, let my clutch up, and sit there with my foot on the brake (the proper way) when the light turns green and I press in the clutch to go into 1st, it doesn't want to go into 1st without a fight.


It seems that the truck doesn't like to go into 1st unless it's moving...once it's stopped, out of gear, and the clutch is let up off the floor, that's when it doesn't want to go into 1st again.



Since I live out in the sticks and don't have a good area to work on it, I'm going to have to bring it to a reputable shop near here.



Now the big questions:

1) Does that sound more like a clutch problem instead of the trans to you guys?

and

2) Anyone know a rough estimate as to what the cost is to adjust/rebuild the current clutch or put in an entirely new setup at a shop?

My truck is a '76 C10 with the 250ci and 3-speed manual trans.

[Restrorob]

Dude, I've already given you my thoughts two times already.....

If you can read instructions and install a cheapo shifter, Read these and check your clutch.

Check where the clutch pedal arm hooks to the mount bracket under the dash. Any play/slop ? Look at the rod end that goes into the clutch pedal arm, Any play/slop ? Slide under the truck and look at the end of the rod where it connects to the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ?

Remove the clutch return spring and grab the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ? There are plastic bushings in each end of this lever & shaft assembly that wear/break. Look at the fork rod swivel where it mounts to the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ?

Once you check all the above and repair/replace any worn parts you can check and adjust the clutch as below;

http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId...00c1528007a4af

You can click on the pic to enlarge it, If this does not solve your problem then a new clutch is in order but the above needs to be checked anyway to prevent wearing out a new clutch.

The price of a clutch install depends upon how hungry the shop is you take it to.....

[Tantrix]

Originally Posted by Restrorob

Dude, I've already given you my thoughts two times already.....

If you can read instructions and install a cheapo shifter, Read these and check your clutch.

Check where the clutch pedal arm hooks to the mount bracket under the dash. Any play/slop ? Look at the rod end that goes into the clutch pedal arm, Any play/slop ? Slide under the truck and look at the end of the rod where it connects to the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ?

Remove the clutch return spring and grab the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ? There are plastic bushings in each end of this lever & shaft assembly that wear/break. Look at the fork rod swivel where it mounts to the lever & shaft assembly, Any play/slop ?

Once you check all the above and repair/replace any worn parts you can check and adjust the clutch as below;

http://www.autozone.com/addVehicleId...00c1528007a4af

You can click on the pic to enlarge it, If this does not solve your problem then a new clutch is in order but the above needs to be checked anyway to prevent wearing out a new clutch.

The price of a clutch install depends upon how hungry the shop is you take it to.....

Thanks, those bushings and the lever/shaft are next on my list. I'm trying to check everything I can before having to bring it to a shop.

Thanks for the checklist Restrorob.

[Restrorob]

No Problem....

[TwiggyTheDrummer]

The 3-speeds typically aren't synchronized as far as the shifting goes. I had a 3-speed in my '63 GMC with the column shifter. It would always grind going into first regardless of whether the clutch was fresh or used. I scrapped it and put in a Powerglide with the adapter plate.

[Restrorob]

Strange,

Years ago I pulled a 198 V6 3spd. out of a 63 Skylark. Dropped it in a 74 Vega with the clutch cable hooked to homemade clutch linkage and topped it with a cheapo shifter, Never had any shift issues whats so ever. Blew the rear spider gears 3 times banging 2nd then put a V8 Monza rear in and never broke it again.