'65 Frame: Help Request

[SCOTI]

Tonight I was working on a 6X swb bare frame & was doing the prep work for squaring it on my semi-frame table. As I was documenting the diagonal frame numbers for future reference, I noticed the measurements were off.

Here's the weird part...... When I measured the 'front' diagonally (from a hole on the rail adjacent to the front cab mount to a hole on the opposite rail adjacent to the core support), my numbers were good (square).

When I measured the 'rear' section of frame diagonally (from the farthest-forward front bed mount hole on one rail to a hole almost @ the end of the opposite rail), I'm off by 7/8". I re-measured using different holes toward the rear (half the distance vs. the initial measurement) & was consistently off again.

I cut the center c.member out tonight (intact) & didn't notice anything binding & then installed an ECE c.member w/no issues.The frames I've messed w/so far have all been within a 1/16" so this is new territory for me.

Would any quality frame place (collision center) have the needed info to verify everything is good to go?
Because of the age, where can I get reference material (dimensions) specific to these old frames?
Does anyone else think it's weird that the front numbers are good while the rear numbers are off (yet the frame doesn't 'look' like it's tweaked)? I put a 48" level against each frame rail (between the cab mount area) & the frame is flat there.

Finally (for the locals) . ..... Where can I go here in Dallas/Garland area to get this frame checked so I'm not wasting my time?

[protrash64]

SCOTI....the rear frame crossmember is installed at an angle from the factory. It looks weird and Ive seen people ask if their frame is bent. Maybe this is what the issue could be. Its the one behind the axle......

[protrash64]

Heres a pic....its the x-member above the dif cover.

[joe231]

Jeff,
I noticed that on our truck....I was like

SCOTI, the big yellow and white assembly manual has frame diagrams with dimensions....you can get them from vendors or ebay....

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by protrash64

SCOTI....the rear frame crossmember is installed at an angle from the factory. It looks weird and Ive seen people ask if their frame is bent. Maybe this is what the issue could be. Its the one behind the axle......

I originally thought that was my mistake. But, I was measuring from OE holes on the top of the frame rails @ the back of the frame & diagonally measuring across to the front hole of the farthest forward bed-mount (I'm taking my measurements from behind both the 'crooked' c.member where the Panhard-bar connects & the rear-most c.member).

I'm going to search for some local frame places & a buddy is checking w/the guys @ the dealership he works @...... I'm also going to re-measure the 'extreme' front-to-rear diagonals again. I did this when the frame was picked up & could have sworn all was good (or we wouldn't have gotten it).

Thanks.

[protrash64]

Hell, ya never know...maybe 7/8's was in spec back then. Seriously though, sounds like someone got rearended or had a fender-bender at some point.

[SCOTI]

My body shop buddy came out & looked @ the frame w/me today.

It appears the frame is square from the back of the cab forward. When you diagonally measure from the shock c.member to the front bed mounts, it's off about 1/8". As you move further back, the amount increases.

He feels it will pull true fairly easy & offered to do it @ his shop (he doesn't have a rack, they use anchors in the floor). Sometimes it's not worth waiting for the 'free' opportunity so I might take some time off from work & swing it by a local place to get it done quickly (Mon or Tues) so I can move forward.

[SCOTI]

Well, I took it to Dallas Frame & Alignment for repair. They've been doing this stuff since '69 in the same area/location & have an established rep. The guy worked on it for about 5hrs. He used an adjustable tool similar to a circle compass vs. using a tape measure as it speeds things up when he's in the middle of the frame w/it secured to the work table & pulling on the frame.

After tugging.... the frame seemed straight. When the 'measuring stick' was adjusted for one set of holes, it would drop down into the diagonally corresponding set of opposite holes so I thought all was good. I left $300 lighter in the wallet.

Last night, I started getting the frame jigged up & went to take measurements again..... I'm still 1/2" off. I guess since the 'pins' on the tool aren't the exact size of the holes in the frame, it could be the shorter distance on one set of holes & then longer on the diag. opposite ones yet still be able to drop down in both.

My buddy feels it's no big deal. But the 68-70 longbed frame I just cut down to a shorty was less than a 1/16" off as is my 68's short frame.

After thinking about it for half the night (& not sleeping ), I convinced myself that the 1/2" would be ok as long as it was not @ the suspension mounting points. So today I measured from the front c.member mounting holes (@ the top of the frame) to the trailing arm c.member mounting holes, & I'm 1/4" off.

How much is too much?

[protrash64]

Still following this......what did the shop say? I would call them and see, but I bet you they say its ok. Just curious.

[Painter D]

If they say it's okay maybe it is within tolerance of what is considered to be acceptable. Sometimes more primative methods are used other than measuring. What I mean is if everything will function properly and everything will bolt up ,there's adjustment in just about everything just for this reason. I know that probably sounds kind of "hack" to say but the factory leaves room for adjustment.

If you go back to my build thread (Surf Blue) there's a pic in there of my truck on the frame rack. The driver side rail was curving up at the back end of the truck. I pulled it down to even it up without taking one measurement, and it looks fine. I bet if I measured it out it would come out uneven but if you look at it from all angles it looks fine and all spaces and gaps are equal.

I'll probably get flamed for admitting this but , if it looks good ,drives straight, everything will work fine who cares what the measurement comes out to be.

FLAME AWAY.

[SCOTI]

That's just it..... I was standing there the whole time the guy was working on it & watched him drop the measuring tool into the opposing diagonal holes w/o issue. My guess is that's 'good enough'.

But . . .... I'm going to cut the frame up & 'good enough' worries me that when I'm re-squaring everything (same dimensions/different height) prior to welding, I'll have issues.

For now, I'm considering different options. They had another truck there on a 2nd table. It was a 60-63 cab on a 71-72 chassis. It was not an 'engineered' look but would prob work w/thinking first before doing (which on that particular truck was not how things occurred & why it was @ the shop). I happen to still have my 68 swb frame around. I'm going to bring the 65 frame home & compare the obvious points of difference to see if I can use the required parts (cab mounts, radiator support, & front frame horns) off the 65 frame to transform mine.

[Painter D]

Gotcha

Hmmm... I see what you're saying. Without looking at it ,if the tool he was using dropped down in the diagonal holes without issue, it's probably good enough. The tram guage don't lie. I would think that if it's good enough now ,the measurements would be good enough during re-squaring.

I'll be in Rowlett on Sunday maybe I could try to stop by and take a look.

[SCOTI]

Sounds good.