If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Legolas894 · 10-12-2009, 12:40 PM

Man!

I thought I would do something easy on Sunday. Changed the old spark plugs. Truck was running fine.

I bought new Champion RJ12YC plugs (same as what was in the 283). Plugs came out really easy. They looked all corroded and dirty but as I said, it was running fine.

Put the new Champions in. Started it up. Mis-fires at idle a couple of times. Took it on the road, power seems gone and mis fires at acceleration.

Does this sound like bad new plugs or a gap issue or something else? I had put four champions in my wife's Mazda yesterday as well and no problems.

I thought I was careful to put the wires back on the right cylinders. I feel like putting the old dirty ones back in.

Any thing easy to check before I get all dirty again?

Thanks

69GMCLonghorn · 10-12-2009, 01:54 PM

There are a million possibilities. Check the firing order. It should be pretty obvious if it's out of sync. The order on a small block is 18436572. Also, check your cap and rotor. Maybe putting good plugs in it caused a problem up the line to rear its ugly head. Check your timing... Pull 2-3 plugs and see if there is any crap on the end of them or if the gap is screwed up.

68gmsee · 10-12-2009, 01:58 PM

If you replaced one plug at a time, you shouldn't have had any wiring issue problems. Since you checked it carefully, I would put the old ones back in to see what it does. I've had new defective plugs on more than one occasion. And while you have them out, comare the gap or makes sure they're gapped properly.

I stopped buying Champions some time back because I had too many bad plugs and went to Autolites. Then on the last batch of Autolites for my GMC, I got a bad one there also. Bottom line, is they're not what they used to be.

piecesparts · 10-12-2009, 01:59 PM

Check your spark plug wires. It is possible, that when you pulled the plugs, you may have damaged one or more wires inside the rubber insulation and now you are not getting a good spark through them. Not knowing what quality of wire you are running, this happens a lot when you remove the wire from the old plug.

I would have used an AC Delco brand plug, myself---not a lot of luck on the Champions in my past either.

badassciviv · 10-12-2009, 02:14 PM

I would change out your cap and rotor, for the cost and some times the pain they are to get off (I have a set back engine and not much room back there) it is a lot faster to switch them out. also if you have not changed your plug wires in awhile they too should be changed out. I have pulled wires and had the boot clip stay with the plug. When you go to put the plug wire back on the new plug it does not make very good contact and there you are left scratching your head and thinking to your self " how did I mess up an easy job like changing plugs?" lol

dhaymaker · 10-12-2009, 02:15 PM

Similar to 68gmsee, I quit buying Champion spark plugs due to frequent problems with them. I have been using AD Delco spark plugs in both my small and big-block engines for some time. Just don't seem to have the same problems with them!

Wrenchbender Ret · 10-12-2009, 02:19 PM

The Champion plugs out there now crack real easy when you put them in.There is no core inside them. I had 2-3 crack on me a while back. I have been putting plugs in for 60 years & very seldom cracked one. First make sure the wires are not crossed. Pull them back out & take a look. Get a different brand.

Legolas894 · 10-12-2009, 02:27 PM

Thanks for all the great replies.

What are people running in 283V8s (350 V8)?

The Champion RJ12YC was in there already. My Haynes book says AC44.

Looking elsewhere on the web and there are lots of complaints about bad champions. What a shame.

rwolf9653 · 10-12-2009, 02:31 PM

I have had great success with Autolite. Cheap and reliable. I worked with a guy that would only use autolite in his harley because everything else could not stand up, so I bought a pack and have not thought about changing brands since.

69GMCLonghorn · 10-12-2009, 04:25 PM

Also, if it's a daily driver and you have the cash, get some platinums. You won't notice a difference right away, but they'll last longer, especially if the engine is a little worn.

Wrenchbender Ret · 10-12-2009, 06:27 PM

First thing make sure you have the right seat plug. They used a flat seat plug with a gasket up to about 1970. After that they went to a tapered seat without a gasket. I like the extended tip plugs. AC R45ts or R44ts for the tapered seasts & R 45s or R44s for the flat seat.

**michael bustamante** · 10-12-2009, 07:10 PM

I say plug wires got damaged in the removal too. too many times ive stretched the connection on the boot and caused a misfife. also you should look for arcing. start the truck at nightand look under the hood to see if theres any little light shows going on on theose wires,and cap
i use r44 delcos myself as well. sometimes its good to stay OEM

DjS71 · 10-12-2009, 08:30 PM

To add my unwanted $.02 I've had great success with champion plugs... in lawnmowers & weed eaters

AC All the way. Had a bad autolite or two.

texanidiot25 · 10-12-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael bustamante

I say plug wires got damaged in the removal too. too many times ive stretched the connection on the boot and caused a misfife. also you should look for arcing. start the truck at nightand look under the hood to see if theres any little light shows going on on theose wires,and cap
i use r44 delcos myself as well. sometimes its good to stay OEM

Won't always see it that way. But, get a spray bottle and wet the spark plug wires real good and you'll find holes real quick.

Quick-n-dirty mechanic trick to test for bad wires.

Legolas894 · 10-12-2009, 09:16 PM

Ok-wetted the wires good at night here and couldn't see any arcing. They're just stock black wires-no writing to be seen so they could be pretty old.

I heard misfires on both sides judging from the "pop" in the exhaust sound on both tail pipes.

I'll try the AC Delco plugs and swap out the Champions. I could put the old ones back in but come on, I should put something new in the old girl!

I'll also look into a set of points. I was hoping to go HEI but don't know if the budget is there.

Thanks for all the advice.

texanidiot25 · 10-12-2009, 09:18 PM

You can find high performance HEI's for 60-70 bucks on ebay. Junk yard them even cheaper. Truck will run better in every way!

Legolas894 · 10-13-2009, 09:14 PM

OK-Picked up some ACDelco R43S plugs before the store closed tonight.

All the R45 they had had a tapered seat and a few posts I read said I can't run a tapered seat in the 283.

Do you think I should take these back and go to a different store and get the R45? Also, there's no gasket on these plugs and the Champions RJ12YC I took out had gaskets on them.

I saw some old posts that these plugs are too "cold" and foul up.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

ChevLoRay · 10-13-2009, 09:29 PM

I changed to AC RapidFire plugs on my '69 when I was still driving it and never had any issues with 'em. Of course, I had also changed carbs and intake and replaced the HEI before the plugs but no complaints.

**truckdude239** · 10-13-2009, 09:40 PM

just get a set of ac delcos new wires and a new cap and rotor and it should solve your problems

Legolas894 · 10-16-2009, 05:02 PM

How dumb can you get. I bought another set of plugs and was all set to rip out the Champions when I decided to check the firing order (as suggested by69GMCLonghorn). The order was stamped on the intake manifold but was a little hard to read. Sure enough, I had 1 and 3 cylinders wired in reverse order. I thought I had been pretty careful too.

I still need to replace the wires at some point as the connectors at the distributor were worn and some of the wires had bulges in them.

Thanks to all who replied.

70clone · 10-16-2009, 09:09 PM

YEH THE PROBLEM WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED YOU BOUGHT CHAMPION PLUGS , I CANT BELEIVE THEY ARE STILL IN BUSINESS I WOULDNT PUT CHAMPION IN MY LAWN MOWER LOL!!! i DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT CHAMPION PLUGS BUT THEY ARE JUNK THEY DONT EVEN MAKE A GOOD PAPER WEIGHT. GET SOME AC DELCOS

QKENUF4U · 10-16-2009, 09:40 PM

champions only work well in FORDS !! lol i use ac-delco or NGK's in my vehicles....

C20-67_N_MO · 10-16-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QKENUF4U

champions only work well in FORDS !! lol i use ac-delco or NGK's in my vehicles....

ROFL

AC-Delco plugs rock

*jake wells* · 10-16-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas894

Thanks for all the great replies.

What are people running in 283V8s (350 V8)?

The Champion RJ12YC was in there already. My Haynes book says AC44.

Looking elsewhere on the web and there are lots of complaints about bad champions. What a shame.

i run autolite 85 in my truck no problems yet the old ones in it were AC sparkplugs not AC DELCO

rscam · 10-17-2009, 11:08 AM

Agreed!! Champion plugs are for lawnmowers. They are no good in anything else.

10-12-2009, 12:40 PM	#1
Legolas894 Chemist under the hood... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fort Erie,ON, Canada Posts: 617	If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Man! I thought I would do something easy on Sunday. Changed the old spark plugs. Truck was running fine. I bought new Champion RJ12YC plugs (same as what was in the 283). Plugs came out really easy. They looked all corroded and dirty but as I said, it was running fine. Put the new Champions in. Started it up. Mis-fires at idle a couple of times. Took it on the road, power seems gone and mis fires at acceleration. Does this sound like bad new plugs or a gap issue or something else? I had put four champions in my wife's Mazda yesterday as well and no problems. I thought I was careful to put the wires back on the right cylinders. I feel like putting the old dirty ones back in. Any thing easy to check before I get all dirty again? Thanks __________________ Current fleet: 2013 GMC Sierra, 5.3L, 4x4 1988 GMC Sierra, 305, Auto 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8 1997 VW Cabrio, 2.0L 2017 Toyota Rav4, 2.5L Stuff I wish I still had: 2013 Toyota Matrix [RIP] 1967 GMC 910 Fleetside, 283 V8 [1st Love-SOLD] 1987 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4X4, 4.0 I-6 [SOLD} 1994 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 5.7LV8 [SOLD] 1995 Chevrolet Astro AWD, 4.3L V6 (RIP) 1998 Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, 5.7L V8 [SOLD]

10-12-2009, 01:54 PM	#2
69GMCLonghorn Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Porter Ranch, CA Posts: 978	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! There are a million possibilities. Check the firing order. It should be pretty obvious if it's out of sync. The order on a small block is 18436572. Also, check your cap and rotor. Maybe putting good plugs in it caused a problem up the line to rear its ugly head. Check your timing... Pull 2-3 plugs and see if there is any crap on the end of them or if the gap is screwed up.

10-12-2009, 01:58 PM	#3
68gmsee Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Centrally located between Houston, Austin and Waco. BCS area. Posts: 7,947	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! If you replaced one plug at a time, you shouldn't have had any wiring issue problems. Since you checked it carefully, I would put the old ones back in to see what it does. I've had new defective plugs on more than one occasion. And while you have them out, comare the gap or makes sure they're gapped properly. I stopped buying Champions some time back because I had too many bad plugs and went to Autolites. Then on the last batch of Autolites for my GMC, I got a bad one there also. Bottom line, is they're not what they used to be.

10-12-2009, 01:59 PM	#4
piecesparts Parts and more parts Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere Posts: 6,821	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Check your spark plug wires. It is possible, that when you pulled the plugs, you may have damaged one or more wires inside the rubber insulation and now you are not getting a good spark through them. Not knowing what quality of wire you are running, this happens a lot when you remove the wire from the old plug. I would have used an AC Delco brand plug, myself---not a lot of luck on the Champions in my past either. __________________ Frank Last edited by piecesparts; 10-12-2009 at 02:01 PM.

10-12-2009, 02:14 PM	#5
badassciviv Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Calgary AB Canada Posts: 67	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! I would change out your cap and rotor, for the cost and some times the pain they are to get off (I have a set back engine and not much room back there) it is a lot faster to switch them out. also if you have not changed your plug wires in awhile they too should be changed out. I have pulled wires and had the boot clip stay with the plug. When you go to put the plug wire back on the new plug it does not make very good contact and there you are left scratching your head and thinking to your self " how did I mess up an easy job like changing plugs?" lol __________________ [B][/B] James 68 GMC SHORT FLEET 4x4 83 Dodge short fleet 2x4 2000 Civic SI Last edited by badassciviv; 10-12-2009 at 02:15 PM.

10-12-2009, 02:15 PM	#6
dhaymaker Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Peyton, CO Posts: 448	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Similar to 68gmsee, I quit buying Champion spark plugs due to frequent problems with them. I have been using AD Delco spark plugs in both my small and big-block engines for some time. Just don't seem to have the same problems with them! __________________ don "The DRBMan" 2014 Audi A4 (The Wife's Daily Driver) 2017 HD Ultra (The Cruiser) 2003 HD Fatboy (The Ride) 2001 Chevy Suburban (Another back up!!) For the first time in forever, not a single 67-72 Chevy truck, Blazer, or Suburban on the property! Basically retired and getting the new Motorhome ready for some traveling. Doing a bit of work on the house getting it ready to sell! LOL!!

10-12-2009, 02:19 PM	#7
Wrenchbender Ret Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Overland Park, Ks. Posts: 5,227	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! The Champion plugs out there now crack real easy when you put them in.There is no core inside them. I had 2-3 crack on me a while back. I have been putting plugs in for 60 years & very seldom cracked one. First make sure the wires are not crossed. Pull them back out & take a look. Get a different brand.

10-12-2009, 02:27 PM	#8
Legolas894 Chemist under the hood... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fort Erie,ON, Canada Posts: 617	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Thanks for all the great replies. What are people running in 283V8s (350 V8)? The Champion RJ12YC was in there already. My Haynes book says AC44. Looking elsewhere on the web and there are lots of complaints about bad champions. What a shame. __________________ Current fleet: 2013 GMC Sierra, 5.3L, 4x4 1988 GMC Sierra, 305, Auto 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8 1997 VW Cabrio, 2.0L 2017 Toyota Rav4, 2.5L Stuff I wish I still had: 2013 Toyota Matrix [RIP] 1967 GMC 910 Fleetside, 283 V8 [1st Love-SOLD] 1987 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4X4, 4.0 I-6 [SOLD} 1994 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 5.7LV8 [SOLD] 1995 Chevrolet Astro AWD, 4.3L V6 (RIP) 1998 Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, 5.7L V8 [SOLD]

10-12-2009, 02:31 PM	#9
rwolf9653 more ideas than money Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: spring grove, pa Posts: 1,068	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! I have had great success with Autolite. Cheap and reliable. I worked with a guy that would only use autolite in his harley because everything else could not stand up, so I bought a pack and have not thought about changing brands since. __________________ Randy 1948 Chevy 3100 5 window 1966 Chevy C30 Dually 1967 Chevy K10 1972 Chevy K20 1972 Chevy C10 1972 Chevy K5 Blazer 1987 Chevy V10 2003 Chevy Suburban

10-12-2009, 04:25 PM	#10
69GMCLonghorn Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Porter Ranch, CA Posts: 978	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Also, if it's a daily driver and you have the cash, get some platinums. You won't notice a difference right away, but they'll last longer, especially if the engine is a little worn.

10-12-2009, 06:27 PM	#11
Wrenchbender Ret Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Overland Park, Ks. Posts: 5,227	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! First thing make sure you have the right seat plug. They used a flat seat plug with a gasket up to about 1970. After that they went to a tapered seat without a gasket. I like the extended tip plugs. AC R45ts or R44ts for the tapered seasts & R 45s or R44s for the flat seat.

10-12-2009, 07:10 PM	#12
michael bustamante Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 7,850	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! I say plug wires got damaged in the removal too. too many times ive stretched the connection on the boot and caused a misfife. also you should look for arcing. start the truck at nightand look under the hood to see if theres any little light shows going on on theose wires,and cap i use r44 delcos myself as well. sometimes its good to stay OEM __________________ 1967custom Last edited by michael bustamante; 10-12-2009 at 07:12 PM.

10-12-2009, 08:30 PM	#13
DjS71 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Santa Rosa, CA Posts: 267	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! To add my unwanted $.02 I've had great success with champion plugs... in lawnmowers & weed eaters AC All the way. Had a bad autolite or two. __________________ 1971 C10 Short/Fleet 307-2BBL/3OTT 1999 Silverado 2500 ECSB 6.0/4L80

10-12-2009, 09:16 PM	#15
Legolas894 Chemist under the hood... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fort Erie,ON, Canada Posts: 617	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Ok-wetted the wires good at night here and couldn't see any arcing. They're just stock black wires-no writing to be seen so they could be pretty old. I heard misfires on both sides judging from the "pop" in the exhaust sound on both tail pipes. I'll try the AC Delco plugs and swap out the Champions. I could put the old ones back in but come on, I should put something new in the old girl! I'll also look into a set of points. I was hoping to go HEI but don't know if the budget is there. Thanks for all the advice. __________________ Current fleet: 2013 GMC Sierra, 5.3L, 4x4 1988 GMC Sierra, 305, Auto 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8 1997 VW Cabrio, 2.0L 2017 Toyota Rav4, 2.5L Stuff I wish I still had: 2013 Toyota Matrix [RIP] 1967 GMC 910 Fleetside, 283 V8 [1st Love-SOLD] 1987 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4X4, 4.0 I-6 [SOLD} 1994 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 5.7LV8 [SOLD] 1995 Chevrolet Astro AWD, 4.3L V6 (RIP) 1998 Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, 5.7L V8 [SOLD]

10-12-2009, 09:18 PM	#16
texanidiot25 Eat My Rust Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Cypress, Texas Posts: 3,362	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! You can find high performance HEI's for 60-70 bucks on ebay. Junk yard them even cheaper. Truck will run better in every way!



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10-13-2009, 09:14 PM	#17
Legolas894 Chemist under the hood... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fort Erie,ON, Canada Posts: 617	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! OK-Picked up some ACDelco R43S plugs before the store closed tonight. All the R45 they had had a tapered seat and a few posts I read said I can't run a tapered seat in the 283. Do you think I should take these back and go to a different store and get the R45? Also, there's no gasket on these plugs and the Champions RJ12YC I took out had gaskets on them. I saw some old posts that these plugs are too "cold" and foul up. Any thoughts? Thanks __________________ Current fleet: 2013 GMC Sierra, 5.3L, 4x4 1988 GMC Sierra, 305, Auto 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8 1997 VW Cabrio, 2.0L 2017 Toyota Rav4, 2.5L Stuff I wish I still had: 2013 Toyota Matrix [RIP] 1967 GMC 910 Fleetside, 283 V8 [1st Love-SOLD] 1987 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4X4, 4.0 I-6 [SOLD} 1994 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 5.7LV8 [SOLD] 1995 Chevrolet Astro AWD, 4.3L V6 (RIP) 1998 Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, 5.7L V8 [SOLD]

10-13-2009, 09:29 PM	#18
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! I changed to AC RapidFire plugs on my '69 when I was still driving it and never had any issues with 'em. Of course, I had also changed carbs and intake and replaced the HEI before the plugs but no complaints. __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was.

10-13-2009, 09:40 PM	#19
truckdude239 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Lewisville, Nc Posts: 10,237	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! just get a set of ac delcos new wires and a new cap and rotor and it should solve your problems __________________ David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube

10-16-2009, 05:02 PM	#20
Legolas894 Chemist under the hood... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Fort Erie,ON, Canada Posts: 617	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! How dumb can you get. I bought another set of plugs and was all set to rip out the Champions when I decided to check the firing order (as suggested by69GMCLonghorn). The order was stamped on the intake manifold but was a little hard to read. Sure enough, I had 1 and 3 cylinders wired in reverse order. I thought I had been pretty careful too. I still need to replace the wires at some point as the connectors at the distributor were worn and some of the wires had bulges in them. Thanks to all who replied. __________________ Current fleet: 2013 GMC Sierra, 5.3L, 4x4 1988 GMC Sierra, 305, Auto 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8 1997 VW Cabrio, 2.0L 2017 Toyota Rav4, 2.5L Stuff I wish I still had: 2013 Toyota Matrix [RIP] 1967 GMC 910 Fleetside, 283 V8 [1st Love-SOLD] 1987 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 4X4, 4.0 I-6 [SOLD} 1994 Chevrolet Caprice Classic, 5.7LV8 [SOLD] 1995 Chevrolet Astro AWD, 4.3L V6 (RIP) 1998 Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, 5.7L V8 [SOLD]

10-16-2009, 09:09 PM	#21
70clone Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: JACKSONVILLE FL Posts: 200	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! YEH THE PROBLEM WAS BEFORE YOU STARTED YOU BOUGHT CHAMPION PLUGS , I CANT BELEIVE THEY ARE STILL IN BUSINESS I WOULDNT PUT CHAMPION IN MY LAWN MOWER LOL!!! i DONT KNOW WHAT IT IS ABOUT CHAMPION PLUGS BUT THEY ARE JUNK THEY DONT EVEN MAKE A GOOD PAPER WEIGHT. GET SOME AC DELCOS

10-16-2009, 09:40 PM	#22
QKENUF4U Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: SUNNY WARM BIKE RIDING COTTONWOOD ARIZONA Posts: 2,097	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! champions only work well in FORDS !! lol i use ac-delco or NGK's in my vehicles....

10-17-2009, 11:08 AM	#25
rscam Registered User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Monroe,Georgia Posts: 313	Re: If it ain't broke-Why did I fix it! Agreed!! Champion plugs are for lawnmowers. They are no good in anything else.

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