fatman xmember and stuff??

[blackmopar]

did a search, but didnt see anything - never does though regardless of what forum im on.

Anyway - have seen a ton of guys doing the PorterBuilt dropmembers and stuff - but Ive never heard of anyone doing a fatman conversion to get the front end down - Anyreason? No Good???? What?

Reason Im asking:
I have a full blown Stage 3 Fatman Kit I got for a 48dodge build that is on hold for a number of other reasons.

Now Im working this 64 LWB and Im thinking all these MII parts would make it sit and stop awfully sweet if I just grab a fatman bolt in xmember - that would get me disc brakes, tubular control arms (pretty), manual rack, and a much lowered stance - and I have all of it sitting on a shelf in my garage.

Whaddya think - anyone got this set up already I just aint seen?

thanks

[SCOTI]

The reason they're not optimum for these trucks is because they're under-sized. They can be upgraded to bigger brakes & such, but GM truck stuff (the disc brake years) work fine & is easy to source.

That's why Porterbuilts Dropmember is ideal as it allows you to re-use the OE 71-87 GM disc brakes, 73-87 a-arms, & spindles. If you already have the stuff for another project, it might be worth pursuing.

But, what will you do when 'that project' gets bumped to the 'front burner'?

[blackmopar]

hmmmm, I get what youre saying. If their crossmember for these trucks is the same as the one I have for the 48 dodge, I can see what you mean by undersized. The tubular a-arms too I guess - they are 'slim' but seem stout. The rotors and calipers are GM stuff, and spindles are (I believe) based on ford mustang design.

Yea, I wouldnt drop (no pun) $3k on a complete setup for this model truck from them, but having everything but the xmember, it seems tempting to be able to convernt to disc, go manual rack and pinion, coilover suspension, etc for about 800 bucks i think.

the 64 is top dog on project list as I need it for a daily driver and is a complete vehicle - the 48 dodge is a long term (ive finally come to realization) project as is no where near a complete vehicle.

[blackmopar]

oh, and I should mention - im not asking opinions/information with final intent to not listen and move forward with my orignal plan as Ive seen so often. But if it is correctly doable, would be a great way for me to get this front end low.

Scoti, when you say their crossmember is undersized - what issue/problem does this result in?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by blackmopar

oh, and I should mention - im not asking opinions/information with final intent to not listen and move forward with my orignal plan as Ive seen so often. But if it is correctly doable, would be a great way for me to get this front end low.

Scoti, when you say their crossmember is undersized - what issue/problem does this result in?

You hit the nail on the head.... Undersized in they come w/smaller brakes (even the GM brakes they come w/are typically 11" diameter max; usually smaller 10.5"), smaller spindles, & the basic kits have puny stamped a-arms (the c.members seem adequately built).

If your kit has tubular arms, that's a plus. MII spindles do have a large variety of aftermarket brake kits available so the spindles & brakes can easily be upgraded but that adds to the cost which lowers the over-all value of their kits vs. stock GM stuff.

I considered the Fatman bolt-in kit @ one time but I strongly dislike the way MII upper a-arms attach/align. A friend of mine did their bolt-in kit & then had to chop it up to get it almost as low as Porter's Dropmember. In total, he spent more w/the additional fab work too.... Budget constraints drive project decisions more often than not so many guys here won't fault you on the decision. Like stated, if you already have most of the stuff & it will transfer over to the 'current' truck, I would use it.

Will you get another bolt-in c.member or a weld-in unit?
Do they sell the bolt-in c.member independently of the kit?

[blackmopar]

i dont recall which diameter rotors i have, Ill have to check that.
I do have the stainless tubular arms. The spindles are their 2" drop - which I really dont like on the dodge, so i was probably gonna eplace them with stocks anyways (dont ya love how you can talk yourself into most anything haha)
i dont want to 'lay frame' but would love the front fender to be over the front tire (also aint gonna bag, so needs to be reasonable ride height)
Im lookin at their bolt in member - but im not clear on how i would mount the upper tubular a-arms

[CSGAS]

FYI- stock Mustang II spindles are forged, while nearly all dropped MII spindles and other factory spindles like our trucks are cast with beefed up everything to restore the strength inherent in a forging.

My one attempt at using a Fatman front suspension, in a 54 Plymouth wagon, led to frustration because I knew what height I wanted it to sit at and Fatman's kit would have resulted in 2" more drop than I wanted. They futzed around for 6 or 10 months (depending on your point of view of the process) before revealing they couldn't make a front end like I wanted. Knowing the ins and outs of fabrication, I wasn't mad...I just dived in to "fix" it. My mentor actually did the work of putting in a stock (sheetmetal) crossmember and that revealed to me what the problem was--Fatman focuses on building their crossmembers and kits from tube and aftermarket components for very practical reasons. Their kits are engineered to work as assembled. The tube approach simply interfered with too many existing structures in the 54 Mopars, while the sheetmetal crossmember worked with them.

Now that brings up a different aspect of your kit. It was engineered to work perfectly with those drop spindles. If you change to standard spindles when you get back to that project, check with Fatman to find out what else you'll have to change (crossmember mounting angle, brake hoses; heck the list could include everything that bolts on, or nothing at all)

The 10.5" discs mentioned are usually Granada rotors, redrilled if needed to Chevy passenger car bolt pattern or some kits use early A-Body or even later G-body systems adapted to the MII spindles. Racers often use Pinto or MII spindles (factory forged type) with a 5 x 5" hub and any conceivable size rotor and caliper adapter--IMSA actually requires this setup in some series. Other setups can be based on A-Body or G-Body spindles and similar hub/brake combos. All end up with fabricated A-Arms. I can't claim to know all the details but the A-Body is most preferred, then MII, then G-body because the G's bend too easily when a wall is hit.

They like the truck ball joints, but not the truck spindles. Also, the inner mounting setup is usually patterned after the A-Body's (or similar G-Bodies) rather than the MII or truck setup.

So there's all the ideals and "I wanna be just like a racer" info. For more details, Speedway Motors site and catalog can reveal a lot (even if you make your final purchase somewhere else, the techies will often help point you in the right direction). Truck use is not the same as race use of course, but since the race parts in this case are already compromised by being street-based instead of purpose manufactured, it's hard to discount the research the racers did.

[blackmopar]

WOW thanks for all that CG - good info and valid points - When I originally bought the kit for the 48 dodge I originally had stock height spindles on the order, and then opted to go with dropped - but I will check if I decide to go back. I dont recall if theyre forged or cast. Ive been thinking going back to a straight axle for the 48 might be better anyway, so stealing these parts for immediate use isnt too terrible.

I need to pull all of the parts out of the boxes as its been some time since i had hands on them and see exactly what all is - I have no idea what GM body type theyre all based on or what size rotors they are from memory - but they are 5 bolt mopar/ford pattern for certain - so I will likely not use the rotors anyway - so I suppose I could buy aftermarket rotors to fit the mII drop spindles with a 6 lug pattern to match my existing rear end and wheel set, right?

Basically if I go this route I intend to use the following Fatman stuff from what I have in boxes:
tubular a-arms
coilovers
mII drop spindles
calipers
manual rack/pinion

What I would need to buy (I think):
New Fatman bolt on Crossmember for 64up GM
aftermarket rotors with 6 lug adaptable to above spindles
Dual Master Cylinder and parts to split brake system
Steering Shaft and Linkage

(Im still waiting on Fatman to respond to an email I sent them late today to confirm interchangeability) I also still dont see how I would bolt upper a-arms...

The real question comes down to is this worth doing? Meaning does what I would need to purchase still come in cheaper (and hopefully by a longshot) to drop the front than going the typical route I see on here with PB Dropmember and sourcing all of the other stuff? No clue, thats what I need to rersearch - but i have to think that even if not as sweet as the PB set up, it has to be a 100x better than stock 64 suspension, steering and braking, right?


All that said, still looking for everyones opnions and input - thanks guys!

[SCOTI]

You're not looking to lay frame or even use bags so how 'low' are you looking to go (check Early Classic Enterprises website for ideas on dropped stances)?

Do you plan to c-section the rear rails?

[blackmopar]

right now i have CPP 2/4" drop coils and shocks - this brought the rear down nicley (rear tire is about an inch tucked under side lip) but really didnt do much to the front other than stiffen it up and take the 'boat turn' feel out of it. I was gonna just live with it like this until this whole idea popped up.

I would like to have the truck sit as low as possible and still remain driveable without bags. Fatman replied to me overnight and they say their xmember will drop 6-8" from stock c10 height using the mII drop spindles. This sounds about perfect as currently my bumper is still 9-10" off the ground with the drop coils.

As for the rear - I'm apt to leave where is until I really see what happens with the front - I like these trucks in all stances; raked, tail draggin, and flat, so Im not sure - I think it really depends on what the front end does.

I have also left questions for Fatman this morning to verify if I did the xmember swap, could I leave stock steering components in place instead of moving to a rack - this would save even more money, as then I would only need the xmember and new rotors. And if thats the case, I think I will most definlty pursue this as getting 8 inch drop and disc conversion for this truck with only having to grab the xmember and a set of rotors would be KILLER - at least what I see at this point - guess a master cylinder also, but you get the idea

[blackmopar]

byt he way - this is their catalog page showing the kit - sorta hard to see, so Ive asked for some better pics - will post them if I get them.

http://www.fatmanfab.com/catalogpage.php?page=7

[blackmopar]

and thinking further through this for a minute - I guess the only way I could keep stock steering is if there is a way to adapt tie rods to the mII spindle - will need to look more closely at this tonight in the driveway if I dont get a reponse from them

[blackmopar]

so this would be just about perfect stance in my eyes (though mine is a lwb) and in fact this dude used a fatman.

http://customclassictrucks.automotiv...uck/index.html

and this is how mine currently sits

[blackmopar]

well, no chance of using c10 steering to adapt to mII spindles as im sure all of you were aware - least im up to speed I guess. So now I need to verify if I have the right rack at home to do this conversion, and if so, will need new steering components.
One good thing (for me anyway as I plan to keep 6 lug wheels) is that CPP apparently makes 6lug hub and rotors to fit mII spindles (yeah) and no, those god awful rims on my truck now arent what Ill be keeping.

http://www.classictrucks.com/tech/09...all/index.html

[blackmopar]

just to update myself (Im not sure this is much interest to anyone here:'))

the more discussion I have with fatman and checking the parts I have that will adapt I think this is going to be the route I take. I just have too many parts in the garage that will work, and as Ive said, I think Im going to go a different direction with my 48 anyway once that project is resurrected.

but first I need to get this truck back on the road as is - and start procuring the rest of what i need to puchase over the next few months - Ill use this as a build thread once i start gathering the parts. the big nickel items will be the xmember and hub/rotors from CPP

if anyone happens across this thats done this conversion, please chime in

thanks

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by blackmopar

just to update myself (Im not sure this is much interest to anyone here:'))

the more discussion I have with fatman and checking the parts I have that will adapt I think this is going to be the route I take. I just have too many parts in the garage that will work, and as Ive said, I think Im going to go a different direction with my 48 anyway once that project is resurrected.

but first I need to get this truck back on the road as is - and start procuring the rest of what i need to puchase over the next few months - Ill use this as a build thread once i start gathering the parts. the big nickel items will be the xmember and hub/rotors from CPP

if anyone happens across this thats done this conversion, please chime in

thanks

Sounds like a well thought out plan. Use what you have to limit the costs & purchase only the necessary items that can't carry over from your stash.

[CSGAS]

I think you have a solid working plan as well.

The 6-lug rotors are available easily, but I think the 6-lug hubs are usually in a kit with spindle or may only be intended for truck spindles. Does the CPP kit you're looking at say if it's meant for MII spindles? I think they also have different versions for earlier truck spindles, and 1971-72 spindles.

9 times out of 10 some careful selection of inner and outer wheel bearings and seals will allow hub interchange onto the MII spindles. Check the intended diameter of rotors for use with your calipers (the 10.5" mentioned above or one of the optional sizes) and brackets, then make sure the 6-lug rotor you get is the same diameter.

If you have to adapt truck spindle hubs to the MII, offhand I'd recommend buying the hubs for larger bearings (the 1971-72 hubs) as that improves the odds of finding a bearing set to fit the conversion. If anyone's actually done this instead of guessing at odds, I hope they'll speak up.

Tackle one task at a time and the project won't get daunting. Sounds like the steering will be routine (I'm sure you've seen the threads that discuss header interference and the solid solutions employed), and you won't have to worry about odd wheel offsets or other common conversion quirks.

[SCOTI]

They make a MII specific 6-lug rotor now.