Brake pipe questions

[Lippyp]

I was under the truck today sizing up what I need to do to get her back on the road and the brake pipes are looking a bit on the crusty side and no way will they pass its MoT (annual safety inspection) especially the passenger side one on the rear axle. My options are to import a ready made set, looking at Inline tubes prices I take it a full set consists of the short set and the long set so at $155 each set for mild steel and $185 for stainless plus shipping to the UK plus import tax etc makes it a very pricey option. My alternative is to either buy a decent tube flarer myself and make them up or get a local shop to make them, probably in KUNIFER (Copper, Nickel, Iron alloy) tube, this is less prone to cracking than pure copper, easy to bend and still outlasts steel by years.

What I need to know is what size pipe is used right from front to back, what size/thread the unions are as I'll be using new brass ones all throughout, I'm guessing they are standard double flares? I'll also replace the flexihoses and again may get them made locally so again what size are they/threads etc?

Thanks guys.

[thepunisher]

I unfortunately don't have an answer for you but am curious about the MoT process. How does that work? Every year you take your vehicle to the government and they do an inspection? What do the check? It sounds like it's both a physical and an emissions inspection as well? One of the BBC shows that I watch (the name escapes me) has talked about getting a car to pass MoT and that's why I ask. The show is all reruns, it's the one where they have a $4k budget to buy a car fix it up and sell it for a profit. I like seeing familiar cars with the steering wheels on the wrong side

On an aside even with the euro so strong against the dollar it's still cheaper to have a complete set made?

[hounddogs!]

Shameless plug for Inline Tube here.

I'd never suggest how someone spend their hard-earned euros, but I was quite pleased with Inline's SS kit. I was thinking that I'd be out $100 or so with a good flaring kit, fittings and the line itself. With all the bends basically done when the lines come out of the box, I was done in an afternoon.

Sure, there was some tweaking to do, but I found it to be a pretty painless remove and replace operation.

My two pence.

[Lippyp]

Sorry, its still pounds sterling here in the UK and the pound isn't so good against the dollar at the moment. The big problem with importing stuff is all the tax that gets added on when it arrives and the shipping costs. It'll cost me realistically the same in pounds as the dollar price as a minimum, probably a bit more. As much as I'd like stainless lines its gonna be much cheaper to get them made here. I still need to know what size pipe and unions are used, anyone?



The MoT test (stands for Ministery of Transport) is an annual test, its both an emissions test with levels set according to age of the vehicle, fortunateley pre 1975 its a visual check for smoke only rather than an actual emissions check with a sniffer. Its also a full on physical inspection that takes a good hour or more. Below is a list of what is checked, its pretty stringent although the german TUV test is even worse apparently and thats what they want to move the MoT test levels to match.

LIGHTING EQUIPMENT.
All lights are tested for OPERATION, CONDITION & SECURITY. SIDELIGHTS and HEADLIGHTS are:
• The correct type.
• Are correctly aimed (headlights).
• Operate dip & full beam (headlights).

STOP LIGHTS, INDICATORS & HAZARD LIGHTS :
• Must be of the correct type.
• Must not interact with each other's operation.
• Indicator tell tale or audible warning works.

REAR FOG LIGHTS.
• Must be fitted to the centre or offside of the vehicle.
• Tell tale must work.
• Must not interact with other lights.
• Must not be obscured.
• Must be red.

NUMBER PLATE LIGHTS.
• All original lights must be present and working.

REAR REFLECTORS.
• Two reflectors must be fitted fairly symmetrically be secure and not obscured.
• Stop lights,indicators and hazard lights must be fitted to vehicles used on or after 1st April 1986, but if fitted must be tested.
• Rear fog lights must be fitted to all vehicles used on or after 1st April 1980.

CHECKS UNDER THE BONNET.
• Upper Suspension Joints and any other suspension components which can be inspected from under the bonnet.
• Security of steering rack or box and mountings.
• Excessive play in steering rack or box.
• Play in steering joints.
• Any other parts of the steering system that can be seen from under the bonnet.

CHECKS UNDER THE VEHICLE.
• Front & Rear Suspension.
• No split pins, nuts etc missing.
• No bent or broken components.
• Condition of road springs.
• Condition of suspension joints for excessive play etc.
• Shock absorbers for leakage & security.
• Shock absorbers for damping action.
• Excessive play in rack/steering joints under load test
• Excessive lift/play in steering box.
• Power steering for leaks etc.
• Security of Rack/Box and mounting areas for corrosion or cracking.
• Wheels an tyres for fouling vehicle body/hoses etc on lock to lock.
• Condition of front and rear wheel bearings regarding play and noise.
• Steering rack gaiters for splits, leakage, security etc.
• Front outer C V boots for splits, leakage, security etc.
• Metal/Rubber bushes for excess play or wear.
• Locking or retaining devices.
• Front drive shafts and C V joints (if applicable).

STEERING INSIDE THE CAR.
• Steering wheel in good condition.
• Steering wheel securely attached to column.
• Upper column bearings/bush for excess play.
• Steering column for excess end float.
• Clamping bolts checked for security.
• Locking nuts and split pins.
• Free play in steering.
• Flexible couplings/universal joints for excess play.

INSIDE THE CAR.
• Antilock brake warning light (if fitted), is checked for operation and correct operating sequence
• Reserve travel on footbrake so that it does not reach the floor.
• Excess wear of brake pedal rubber.
• Correct operation of brake servo.
• Parking brake for reserve travel so that it does not reach it's end stop.
• Parking brake mountings for corrosion and security.

UNDER THE BONNET.
• Master cylinder/servo checked for leaks under load
• Servo unit for correct operation.
• Visible metal brake pipes for damage, corrosion, leakage or breakages.

UNDER THE VEHICLE.
• With load applied to footbrake.
• All visible metal brake pipes for condition and corrosion.
• Brake discs and drums checked for external condition and contamination.
• Security and condition of backplates and caliper mounting devices.
• Condition of brake pads (if visible).
• Condition and operation of handbrake linkages and cables.
• Leaks from brake compensator (if fitted).

BRAKE PERFORMANCE CHECK.
• The efficiency and balance of the front and rear

TYRE CONDITION.
The reason for failure with respect to tyre wear is:
"The grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising:
• The central three-quarters of the breadth of tread around the entire outer circumference of the tyre".
• Tyres on any axle must be matched with regard to type, size and structure.
• Also general condition of tyres, condition of valves serious cuts, bulges or other damage.

WHEEL CONDITION.
Damage, distortion, cracks, distorted bead rim securely attached to vehicle, missing wheel nuts or studs.
• The security of any externally fitted spare wheel or spare wheel carrier.

SEATBELTS.
Most vehicles after 1965 must have seatbelts Irrespective of this requirement all seat belts fitted to a vehicle are inspected for:
• Security of seatbelt mountings and locking stalks.
• Security and operation of locking/release mechanism.
• Condition of webbing.
• Operation of retraction mechanism.
Note: The inertia locking mechanism is not checked On some vehicles where the belt is attached to the seat the security of the seat to the vehicle would also be part of the seat belt check. With regard to the retraction mechanism it is allowed to manually feed the belt back in.

GENERAL.
WINDSCREEN.
Chips or cracks in the windscreen directly in front of the driver, in the area swept by the wiper blades, are acceptable if they are less than 10mm in diameter. In the rest of the swept area up to 40mm damage is acceptable.

Official stickers (parking permits, tax disc etc) in the swept area in front of the driver will fail if they are more than 10mm in diameter (40mm elsewhere).

WASHERS AND WIPERS.
• Operation.
• Extent of area swept by wipers.
• Condition of wiper blades.

HORN.
• Operation.
• Control is easily reached by driver.
• Loud enough.
• Cannot be multi tone sequential type.

EXHAUST SYSTEM.
• Part of the system missing will result in failure.
• Excessive deterioration.
• Support mountings are missing or broken.
• Excessive noise.

EXHAUST EMISSIONS.
• This check is carried out using special equipment
• The exact details will depend on the age and model of the vehicle.
• Excessive smoke (visual check).
• Diesel smoke is tested using a smoke meter.

BODY CONDITION AND SECURITY.
The body must not be so insecure or displaced that it could cause the loss of control of the vehicle when driven or cause a danger to other road users.

CORROSION.
Corrosion is a complicated and wide ranging topic. It can be used as a reason for failure in many of the previous sections. A brief explanation follows:
A vehicle will fail for excessive corrosion in a 'prescribed area' ie within 30cms of various components such as brakes, steering, suspension, seat belt mounts etc.
Also excessive corrosion not in a 'prescribed area' which is likely to adversely affect the vehicles steering or brakes.
Excessive corrosion can mean a hole or significantly weakened structure.

SEATS.• The front seats must be secure.
• All seat backs must be securable in the upright position.

MIRRORS.
Not all mirrors on all vehicles are subject to the test. This depends on the age of the vehicle but those which are must be:
• Secure.
• Visible from the drivers seat.
• Not distorted or damaged so as to seriously impair the driver's view of the rear.

FUEL SYSTEM.
• Any fuel leak or defect which will allow fuel to leak out will fail the test.
• Fuel filler cap must fasten securely and seal must be in place and in good condition.

REGISTRATION PLATES & VIN NUMBERS.
For any registered vehicle number plates must be:
• Present.
• Secure.
• Not faded dirty or obscured.
• Be composed of correctly formed letters, correctly spaced.
VIN plates are required on all vehicles firstly used on or after 1st August 1980 and must be:
• Permanently displayed.
• Consistent.
• Legible.

[BOZO]

!!!Wow!!! I would definitely end up walking. That kind of scrutiny would leave most all of my rides parked.

[thepunisher]

Thanks for the info on the MoT, I figured it was strick but had no idea how thorough the exame was. When I lived in Arizona and had to do emmissions tests I thought that was bad. This seems like it could leave a little room for interpretation on the inspectors part, that's never good.

From a quick search on the internets it looks like 3/16" pipe is used from the master cylinder to the two front brakes and 1/4" is run to the rear. The suggestion was that if you have disk brakes in the back it is definately worth doing 1/4". How ever if it is drum brakes in the back 3/16" is addequate. I couldn't find the flair details or the thread sizes.