Frustrated with rear end

[panhandler62]

No, this isn't a weight loss thread....

I have an HO52 rear end. I am trying to get the break drum off so I can put new shoes on her and make sure everything is hunky-dorry before I put the rear back in the truck.

I've already pulled the axle, both spanner nuts and the lock washer thingy and I'm still not any closer to pulling the drum.

Do I just beat the ding-dong out of it at this point????

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Your brakes are probably binding. There are probably some grooves in the drums. Back the adjustments off 7 make sure the cables are going back in.

[cdowns]

i'm not familiar with those bigger rears but i'd start by cheking the service manual for the proper way to pull apart

[prostreetC-10]

lol.....I love your post title. My wife gets frustrated with my rear end all the time.

[panhandler62]

Well... near as I can tell; there are no adjusters on this thing. There are no openings on the backing plate.

Before I listen to cdowns and waste $30 on a manual that I will use exactly one time and then throw away... does anyone know how this rear end works?

[panhandler62]

Also.... this unit has the pinion load screw... is it actualy a 72 instead of a 52?

[CE20934]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

Well... near as I can tell; there are no adjusters on this thing. There are no openings on the backing plate.

Before I listen to cdowns and waste $30 on a manual that I will use exactly one time and then throw away... does anyone know how this rear end works?

Simple question (which you've probably already checked): are there holes in the drum?

It sounds like you've removed all the bits you need to to get the drums off. Do the drums move out at all?

There are adjusters for these brakes. However, if there isn't a way to back them off, the easiest way to unbind the shoes is to snap the base off the anchor pins. On the back side of the backing plate, there should be four little metal circles--two on either side of the axle tube. I usually use a good pair of dikes to break the pins, but a hammer & chisel works just as well.

Once the pins are broken, the drum should pull off easily.

[john]

Can you move it in and out any? Does it turn freely until you pull on it? More than likely as wrenchbender says it is the brake shoes. If the outer bearing is stuck you can take a punch and hammer and whack the inner race to try and break it loose. I have on one occasion had to hook up a puller.

[panhandler62]

I'm going to give the puller a sot (don't know why that didn't occur to me.)

When I get these buggers off they are going in my scrap bin! I'm putting discs on there.. lol

[panhandler62]

Don't have a big enough wheel puller.. gonna have to rent one. whuff

[Sillyoldman]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

I'm going to give the puller a sot (don't know why that didn't occur to me.)

When I get these buggers off they are going in my scrap bin! I'm putting discs on there.. lol

Hey PH if you scrap them why not beat the heck out of them? I had to with my '63 drums. There was just a ton of crud in them. It's frustrating when something theoretically simple turns into a pita.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by panhandler62

Also.... this unit has the pinion load screw... is it actualy a 72 instead of a 52?

I don't believe all HO52s had the adjuster... but some did.

[raverider]

Originally Posted by Sillyoldman

Hey PH if you scrap them why not beat the heck out of them? I had to with my '63 drums. There was just a ton of crud in them. It's frustrating when something theoretically simple turns into a pita.

if there are no adjusters go with the method above. if anything you will get lucky and they will crack in half and slide right off. otherwise usually putting slight pressure on the opposite side of where u are pounding they pop off quite easily. if possible try to hit between the studs next to the spindle and not towards the outside.

[raverider]

Originally Posted by raverider

if there are no adjusters go with the method above. if anything you will get lucky and they will crack in half and slide right off. otherwise usually putting slight pressure on the opposite side of where u are pounding they pop off quite easily. if possible try to hit between the studs next to the spindle and not towards the outside.

also if you have an air hammer try that

[dwaite72lnghrn]

There should be little spring metal covers on the backing plate to check the brakes and bottom center cover for the adjusters. It would be a shame to break the drums as they are no longer available. jmo

[panhandler62]

I'm going to stop at the rental yard and pickup a puller big enough to get these off today after work. I'll save all the drum parts for anyone who wants them (cept the hubs... gonna need those!) lol

If there are any access covers on the backing plates on mine they are exceptionaly well hidden. I'm sure a big puller will get the job done.

[panhandler62]

Originally Posted by Sillyoldman

Hey PH if you scrap them why not beat the heck out of them? I had to with my '63 drums. There was just a ton of crud in them. It's frustrating when something theoretically simple turns into a pita.

That's what really gets me.... the job is pretty much done. All that remains is to slide the drums off ..... slide fail.... grrrr....

When I do get them off I'm taking everything off the end of the axle. Ruffstuff has the brackets I need. Other than that.. just need to recover the hubs, get rotors and (since I *do* want a parking brake!) a set of 79ish Elderado rear calipers.

Should run me about $200 and some sweat to get the rear converted to discs.

[BluTrukker]

if your junkin' the drums, and nothing else works, just torch them off.

[Sillyoldman]

Heat is a last resort. Start with the simple things first.

Plan A: If the drum is worn it can have a ridge inside at the open edge hanging onto the shoes. You need to rotate the drum until the access hole in the outer face lines up with a large slotted screw in the adjuster. This will be slightly below the horizontal centerline at the back. Rotate adjuster screw anti-clockwise (click, click, click) until it hits solid stop, possibly as much as 1/2 to 3/4 turn. This will allow the shoes to retract to clear the wear ridge so the drum can be removed.

Plan B: If the drum turns freely but will not release from the center studs, be sure you remove the two flat head retaining screws. If it doesn't come off immediately with a good solid pull, try a little shock from the back. Catch the flange on the edge of the drum with a flat end punch, pointing the punch generally outward away from the centerline of the car, and give it a good whack with a two pound hammer (lots of weight and inertia but not too much speed). If it doesn't pop loose immediately, don't overdo the effort, as you might break the thin flange off the drum. Simply breaking off a piece of the dust flange is generally not detrimental to function of the brake drum, as long as you don't crack or deform the inside friction surface.

Plan C: If that doesn't break it loose immediately, you may need a brake drum puller. This tool looks like a large but light duty three leg gear puller see here:
JC Whitney brake drum puller
Eastwood Products brake drum puller

Hook this on the flange of the drum at three equally spaced points, with the center screw pressing on the center of the disk wheel axle flange or inside the center of the wire wheel hub. Tighten the manual screw to pull the tool tight. This will pull the drum shell outward, slightly deforming the outer flat face of the drum with a spring type preload. Do not over torque the puller tool, or you run a risk of permanently deforming the drum. Use strong wrist action on the screw, or a very short wrench if it your wrist is weak. Do NOT use a big wrench as shown in the second picture. Also do NOT strike it hard from the back as is implied by position of the hammer in that picture. The puller tool should be pulled up moderately tight, and you should be able to rotate the drum and axle shaft with the tool attached.

With the puller tightened up snug, use a two pound hammer to strike the drum radially inward (gently) as near as possible in line with the plane of the outer face. This will put a solid inward radial shock on the flat face of the drum with very little stress on the outer shell. Just don't hit the center of the outer shell or the thin dust flange. Keep the impact in a radial direction at the outside shoulder of the drum. This is intended to shock the center guide hole and/or the holes around the studs in the radial direction to break it loose from the pilot diameter or from the studs. This will work even if there is zero clearance in the pilot diameter, if it is held with rust, or even if it has a slight interference fit. The impact will break the drum loose from the pilot diameter, forcing it ever so slightly radially. Rotate the drum in 1/3 turn increments, continuing to strike it radially with the heavy hammer. The center pilot will eventually (perhaps gradually) let loose and allow the preloaded center of the drum to spring outward. Sometimes it lets loose with a bang, sometimes only a little at a time, but this should always work with a little patience. If not, then you may have to think about applying heat to the face of the drum, but I have never seen one stuck that tight.

Plan D: If the car was parked for a long time with the hand brake applied, the shoes can be stuck so it will not rotate at all. First check that the cable is not stuck. Lower the hand lever to relax the cable. get under the car at the back, just at the rear side of the axle housing. Grab the cable jacket (not the bare cable) and pull hard to one side. This should pull the center cable tight at the end(s) without pulling at the front. Another good sideways yank should pull the cable out at the output end, so when you let go of the jacket the cable will have slack near the brake backing plate. Check to see that the lever will move. Push it back toward the backing plate if it sticks. Check to see if the wheel (brake drum) will rotate. If it will rotate, revert to Plan A.

Plan E: If you have slack in the cable, but the drum is still stuck and will not rotate, then the shoes are likely stuck to the drum. When the adjuster access hole is not aligned with the adjuster cam, there is a high probability that it is aligned with part of the flat web of a brake shoe. If so, then start by inserting a fat punch and give at a good whack with a hammer. That may break the one shoe away from the drum. If that works then the drum may turn a little before the other shoe hits mechanical stops. You may need to hit it pretty hard. The drum will flex a little, but the backing plate will flex farther and easier, so a good whack on the shoe should break it loose from the drum. Put lug nuts on the wheel studs to prevent damage to the threads. Try a long lever between the studs to rotate the drum by force. If it works, revert to Plan A.

Plan F: If you're still stumped at that point, things get a little more desperate. Remove the nuts (on backing plate) from the "abutment" opposite the slave cylinder. Give the studs a little tap to pop the abutment loose from the backing plate. This will allow the top ends of the shoes to pull away from the backing plate when you pull on the drum. Get a drum puller snugged up on the drum (if you have one). Insert a BIG screwdriver between the drum and the backing plate near the abutment and pry them apart a bit. Maybe give the abutment studs a little tap again if it hasn't broken loose from the backing plate yet.

As you pull the drum the backing plate will come under tension at the slave cylinder, but not at the abutment. This will put a load on the end of the shoe contacting the slave cylinder while allowing the opposite end of the shoe to move away from the backing plate. A drum puller can help here as it can keep a firm and even tension on the drum. Give the accessible shoe a shot with the punch through the adjuster access hole again. That gives a shock to the backing plate separate from the drum. Use a heavy hammer, about 2 pounds, to give a moderate thump to the brake drum, same as if you were trying to free the drum from the hub. Hit it in a radial direction on the edge near the front in line with the face flange. Do not hit the flange on the open edge of the drum. Give it a good solid rap and repeat in various places around the drum. With luck the combination of tension, imbalanced pull on the shoes, and shock in various directions might break it loose. At the very least it should break the drum loose from the hub. If it works, revert to Plan A.

Plan G: With cable loose but drum stuck tight and will not turn. Put the wheels and tires on the car. Lift the rear with a wheeled floor jack under the differential, and haul it out to a place where you have a few car lengths of space ahead of the car. Get a helper or two. Push the car forward as fast as you can within a distance of several feet, and drop the jack as quickly as possible while it's still moving. With luck the weight and inertia of the car may turn the tires to break the drum loose from the shoes. With an advance assumption that this will work, be fully prepared to stop the forward motion of the car when it rolls. Someone in the driver's seat may hit the brake pedal (if it has hydraulic function). Do not depend on the hand brake working. If nothing else, you and the helper(s) may have to stop the roll by hand, so be advised not to do this on a steep grade unless someone is in the seat with hands on the steering wheel and having plenty of roll out distance. If this works, revert to Plan A.

Plan H: If this does not work, and the drum is still stuck to the shoes, you may be into the realm of innovation and creativity, which may depend on your experience and tools at hand. If you are going to apply heat to the brake drum, do it in a well ventilated area and have a fire extinguisher handy. Leather gloves are also a good idea. You will need to heat the drum evenly all the way around at once. Being a large part you will need a large torch. A single hand bottle propane torch likely won't do it. Two or three propane torches used simultaneously might work. One oxy-acetylene torch with a large tip works best, but keep moving the torch around the drum to heat it evenly all around the outside. By the time you get the drum anywhere near red hot the shoe lining material would likely be smoking profusely. That should be more than enough to get the shoes to let loose from the drum. Use this in conjunction with Plan E (long lever to rotate). Then let it cool and revert to Plan A.

Plan I: If all else fails, use the oxy-acetylene torch to cut the brake drum into about four pie shape sections and knock it loose from the shoes with a heavy hammer. This is followed by cooling, cleaning, painting, and the purchase of all new mounting hardware and shoes, maybe a new slave cylinder, and of course a new brake drum. We all hope it never has to go as far as Plan I.

Plan J: This is one of the slickest tricks, but only works on front drums of an MGA 1500. If the shoes are stuck to the drum, and the drum will not turn with any force, and you cannot get the adjuster to budge, there is still a way to disassembly. Disconnect the hydraulic lines. Take the bolts out of the brake cylinders, and tap them through the backing plate. The drum will come off with the shoes, springs, cylinders etc. Once off it is easy to get the internal parts loosened and removed.

[JimmyFloyd]

HO72's had the pinion screw, and being what looks like a dual rear wheel setup, I would guess that to be the case

[panhandler62]

She's not a dually.. just dually iratating.

The shoes aren't stuck because I took a chisel to the back of the springy things that hold them in and popped them loose. I'm pretty sure that the inner bearing race is lodged on the housing because the drum wiggles freely but only about about 3/8" in and out.

I'm pretty sure a puller big enough to grasp it will do the trick.

[panhandler62]

I picked up a claw puller the size of a small South American nation and got the first drum off.

I'll get the second one in the morning after my grand-daughter's soccor game and then face the challenge of getting hte hubs out. Does anyone know for sur which direction the come out? (towards the outside or the inside?)

[vectorit]

I was going to say that the bearing is jammed, since that's what happens with one of my drums. I was able to remove the drum by just tapping the race with a punch all around the edge, tapped in 15 minute increments then banged on the drum. That's how it worked for me.

My axle has the pinion adjuster too.

[panhandler62]

Originally Posted by vectorit

I was going to say that the bearing is jammed, since that's what happens with one of my drums. I was able to remove the drum by just tapping the race with a punch all around the edge, tapped in 15 minute increments then banged on the drum. That's how it worked for me.

My axle has the pinion adjuster too.

Having ripped the first one off... those predicting brake side binding get the blue ribbon... they were hung up on hte drums like nobody's business.. had to pry at them even with the drum half off.

[panhandler62]

After all the drama on the pasenger side.. the driver's side drum came right off with no problem at all.