Is it possible to restore a truck to the point where you can't tell if it's original?

[marks1972]

Originally Posted by WIDESIDE72

Auction in question:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...36#description

there used to be vidios on either here or on classic trucks forum about this truck. it was broken down into segments. it actually showed the truck in the barn with 40 years of dust on it and stages of them cleaning it. it was good vidieo's. real dont know. i havent seen the truck personally but they where cool to watch.

[Bob B.]

I don't think it is possible to restore a vehicle to the point you can't tell it's an original. My brother has been into the whole Mopar scene for years, and I have been around those fanatics for quite some time. Only the Corvette guys are worse! I have seen some beautiful 99 point restored cars that won trophys and were judged as authentic, but they just are not quite the same as a real survivor. Recently, I went to see an all original '71 Hemi Charger R/T with less than 2,000 miles on it. There were things about that car that would be impossible to duplicate, like they way the old time paint looks, the original tires, little decals and chalk marks left by the assembly line. They are only original once!

[Longhorn Man]

as for the comment on better retoration parts, the problem is, the lower priced stuff almost always outsells the quality parts. Thats why auto zone, wal mart, and Mc Donalds are all on every exit ramp.

[VA72C10]

Originally Posted by Bob B.

There were things about that car that would be impossible to duplicate, like chalk marks left by the assembly line. They are only original once!

You mean like these chalk marks he 100% duplicated???






And I've seen some VERY convincing Patina paint jobs when they're subtle like actual patina.....I understand what you're saying....but it could be done....

[bitchin85]

Originally Posted by gkesseru

The odometer has 80 miles on it, while the truck may have more. I don't think there is a tamper seal on either end of the speedometer cable.

couldnt someone just take the speedo cable of the back of the cluster and drive it?... wouldnt that stop the odometer?

[Shane]

Or just replace the speedo ...

[cerjio]

I'm just Glad that there are some real low mileage trucks around i can take pics of, an use as a referance point for mine I dont plan to restore mine to original but plan to make it look like it was bought in 70 an had period correct speed parts added !!!

[crawdadfox]

No way! I have had several low mile original paint cars and trucks, they age in a way you cant duplicate by over or under restoring to try and make them look original.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by Shane

anyone else find it funny the 80 mile "original" ebay truck with the body lines that don't match up is pictured sitting in front of a body shop ...

There is too much wrong with it to be an 80 mile truck. The exhaust systems didn't come aluminized back then so it’s a newer exhaust system. The paint on the engine should be in much better shape, I bought a 72 with 140k on it and when I power washed the motor it looked just like that. There is a lot of smege (goo from unknown sources) on the steering wheel for 80 miles.

The frame was repainted with the exhaust on the truck which didn't happen at the factory. The black spray is on top of the pipes under the cab and body. So the cab and bed have been off this truck then it was painted.

The gear indicator housing should be blue as it is in my truck not chrome. Why would it be chrome from the factory when nothing else in the cab is except handles? The column color does not match the dash color as it does in mine. If it sat that long the signal and shift handles would be mildly pitted with rust.

I think it’s a real nice truck but not an 80 mile truck and certainly not above the 25k asking price, 18 tops. I suspect that it’s a great 100k mile survivor truck touched up. The owner and others just don't know enough about it to support their claims.

While GM may have had body line issue back then the one thing they did well was match color at the factory. If its a shade different then it was an after factory repaint in that area of the body, The dealers on the other hand sucked at matching paint relying mainly on the opinions of half the shop if it matched or not. Lastly my truck is blue under the cab not primer red. Primer red after all these years should show some surface rust spots.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by *****in85

couldnt someone just take the speedo cable of the back of the cluster and drive it?... wouldnt that stop the odometer?

It was very popular to take the cable off the trans or cluster back then. During the early 70's they switched from 3yr-36month and 4-48 warranties to 1-12 and 2-24 so many pepole disconnected the cable to extend the time that had for free repairs.

[MONTEZ]

Making one look original can be done. Making it so you can tell can't. There will always be give aways, the biggest being the paint. Anyone who has ever worked with paint knows that paint in the 70's was made of different materials and looked and felt different. I don't think that anyone who knew what they were looking at could be fooled.

Also on the auction I call BS....

[HOTFUN]

Duplicating the assembly line process can be done with markings and all but nothing can add the patina that 40 years does to anything no matter where or how you store it. Air, light, temperature and just plain old time changes anything. As said before a factory built production line car was not a show car nor ever intended to be. Paint quality and body panel alignment especially back in the 60's and 70's were so far from even good. The paint jobs did not even match from the front clip to the body since the were painted at different points and came together later on the assembly line. As said before some some of the guys I could tell you original workmanship from the assembly line and a respray or touch up and certainly easier to spot a fresh part to a virgin 40 year old part. Mark

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

There is too much wrong with it to be an 80 mile truck. The exhaust systems didn't come aluminized back then so it’s a newer exhaust system. The paint on the engine should be in much better shape, I bought a 72 with 140k on it and when I power washed the motor it looked just like that. There is a lot of smege (goo from unknown sources) on the steering wheel for 80 miles.

The frame was repainted with the exhaust on the truck which didn't happen at the factory. The black spray is on top of the pipes under the cab and body. So the cab and bed have been off this truck then it was painted.

The gear indicator housing should be blue as it is in my truck not chrome. Why would it be chrome from the factory when nothing else in the cab is except handles? The column color does not match the dash color as it does in mine. If it sat that long the signal and shift handles would be mildly pitted with rust.

I think it’s a real nice truck but not an 80 mile truck and certainly not above the 25k asking price, 18 tops. I suspect that it’s a great 100k mile survivor truck touched up. The owner and others just don't know enough about it to support their claims.

While GM may have had body line issue back then the one thing they did well was match color at the factory. If its a shade different then it was an after factory repaint in that area of the body, The dealers on the other hand sucked at matching paint relying mainly on the opinions of half the shop if it matched or not. Lastly my truck is blue under the cab not primer red. Primer red after all these years should show some surface rust spots.

Very interesting observations! I would hope someone considering purchasing this truck reads your input.

[HOTFUN]

This is so easy to document that it is a true 80 original mile truck. All 5 of those original tires are the needle in the hay stack to the truth. They are I believe Uniroyal or General tires and all 5 should have matching build date codes. The date code on the tires will have to be before week 09 of 70 and probably no earlier than sometime late 69 production run. The truck build date is 2/70. A tire with 80 miles will still have nearly all mold markings and most of the nubs showing. That will about 100% document that truck if those match up. I'm betting they do and that truck is what it is from whaat I see in the pictures. Chrome was the standard automatic dial on the column of 67 to 70 pickups as 71-72 was a painted dial indicator. The exhaust looks like a real carbon steel exhaust to me. Pictures are a little unclear to possible paint overspray on the exhaust or just detail spray juice by the clean up shop. Those valve cover decals with codes are about as pure as it gets for a very low mile engine. Just the right patina for a low mile, 40 year old virgin. Steering wheel I can believe too as the wear is not there and the plastic injection molded wheels didnt stand up well to age under any 40 years of life in any condition in my thoughts. The gas cap is about the only thing that should have been painted body color beings it was a plain custom 10. And also as far as the mismatch on that drivers side, another possiblility exists that new vehicles were touched up right from the assembly line end, the transport, or the dealership before the new vehicle was drove off the lot by the first owner. So if it isn't factory paint workmanship, it could have been done in transit. My thoughts only.

[big_al_71]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I think that's the issue: they weren't perfect, back in the day.

I have a 4800 mile '65 GTO that belonged to my dad (original owner), in original unrestored condition.

The paint, fit and finish on that car are terrible. There are numerous defects, like hairs in the paint, they painted right over solvents or something that marred the finish, handprints in the paint, etc that have been there since day 1.

Most restorers don't duplicate that stuff, nor would I want them to.

Having been around original cars my whole life, and "uber restored" perfect Pontiacs out of Scott Tiemann's shop - I think I could tell the difference.


K

I realized that I misread the OP as I thought if you could build a truck better than factory which in fact was the total opposite....

Originally Posted by *****in85

couldnt someone just take the speedo cable of the back of the cluster and drive it?... wouldnt that stop the odometer?

yes!!

[Shane]

i love all the expert opinions threads like this bring out ...

[Bob B.]

You can 'over-restore' a vehicle too! Case in point: At a Mopar show, there was a guy that had a really nice professionally restored '70 Hemi 'Cuda. Man thought he deserved 1st. place in the judging, but he lost out to a very original '70 Challenger R/T. The reason this guy came in second was that his 'Cuda was over restored. The gigged him on stainless steel brake lines (they look different than the OEM plated lines, plus the fittings were cad. plated), the floor of the car underneath was completely painted (originally, Chrysler didn't paint much past the rockers), too much glossy paint and maybe powder coating on the front suspension parts (some should be rusty). The judges in this particular show felt kind of bad for this guy, because he did have quite a car and he paid some serious coin for it, but at the end of the day, you couldn't say it left the factory that way. In any event, the bottom line is it doesn't matter as long as the owner is happy with it. My truck isn't perfect. It has options it didn't leave Fremont with. Most of the bolts were replaced with new grade 8 from the local hardware store. My cool aftermarket tailgate don't quite line up with the bed quarter panels like most do. Oh yeah, and there's that Holley carburetor instead of the Stromberg. But the truck makes me happy and I'll drive it anywhere!

[Bob B.]

Originally Posted by VA72C10

You mean like these chalk marks he 100% duplicated???






And I've seen some VERY convincing Patina paint jobs when they're subtle like actual patina.....I understand what you're saying....but it could be done....

Cool! My truck had similar writing on the firewall. No, I didn't duplicate it! One interesting thing I found while resoring it was a 6" steel rod with a pointed end loose under the dash. It had been there a long time, and with the instrument cluster in the truck, this rod was kind of trapped atop the lower edge of the dash. Had no idea what it was until later when I put the steering column back in after painting. As near as I can figure, the assembly line guy used it to line the holes up when bolting the column braket to the dash. It was just the right diameter to fit into the bolt holes, and when the column is out the dash tends to move a bit towards the firewall.

[oldgold70c10]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

There is too much wrong with it to be an 80 mile truck. The exhaust systems didn't come aluminized back then so it’s a newer exhaust system. The paint on the engine should be in much better shape, I bought a 72 with 140k on it and when I power washed the motor it looked just like that. There is a lot of smege (goo from unknown sources) on the steering wheel for 80 miles.

It says right in the 1970 Chevy Trucks specs brochure the exhaust is fully aluminized.

Originally Posted by dwcsr

The gear indicator housing should be blue as it is in my truck not chrome. Why would it be chrome from the factory when nothing else in the cab is except handles? The column color does not match the dash color as it does in mine. If it sat that long the signal and shift handles would be mildly pitted with rust.

Was your truck a '70? Mine is/was and the gear indicator housing on the 67-70 trucks is chrome, not colored plastic like the 71-72's.

[oldgold70c10]

Originally Posted by HOTFUN

This is so easy to document that it is a true 80 original mile truck. All 5 of those original tires are the needle in the hay stack to the truth. They are I believe Uniroyal or General tires and all 5 should have matching build date codes. The date code on the tires will have to be before week 09 of 70 and probably no earlier than sometime late 69 production run. The truck build date is 2/70. A tire with 80 miles will still have nearly all mold markings and most of the nubs showing. That will about 100% document that truck if those match up. I'm betting they do and that truck is what it is from whaat I see in the pictures. Chrome was the standard automatic dial on the column of 67 to 70 pickups as 71-72 was a painted dial indicator. The exhaust looks like a real carbon steel exhaust to me. Pictures are a little unclear to possible paint overspray on the exhaust or just detail spray juice by the clean up shop. Those valve cover decals with codes are about as pure as it gets for a very low mile engine. Just the right patina for a low mile, 40 year old virgin. Steering wheel I can believe too as the wear is not there and the plastic injection molded wheels didnt stand up well to age under any 40 years of life in any condition in my thoughts. The gas cap is about the only thing that should have been painted body color beings it was a plain custom 10. And also as far as the mismatch on that drivers side, another possiblility exists that new vehicles were touched up right from the assembly line end, the transport, or the dealership before the new vehicle was drove off the lot by the first owner. So if it isn't factory paint workmanship, it could have been done in transit. My thoughts only.

I read that chrome gas cap came when side moldings were ordered.
That's one of the 'cool' things about these trucks: you didn't have to order a package to get some feature you wanted. If you wanted a plain jane truck with this trim or that, you could get it that way.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by ubtripn

Hi everyone,

A little craftsmanship question here. Is it possible to restore a truck so well that a person could not tell? What I mean is can you restore it to the point where it cannot be distinguished from an original truck with 6 miles on it that has been garaged and not driven since it was bought?

-I'm not trying to see if a person could rip somebody off, I just want to know if it is possible to build one that well if you have the skills, money and determination. (and understanding wife)

I have a VERY anal retentive friend who spent 10 years restoring a 1965 GTO convertible. He used the factory marking pens to place tha stage marks where the line mechanics would have done it and got all of the overspray in the correct places. Every nut, bolt and screw was factory original and each of the hoses, battery and decals were correct. He won the GTO nationals with a 100 plus point restoration. The judges could not tell the difference between it and an original car that just rolled off the line. 10 years and $85,000. If he had farmed out any of the work out it would have been four times as much. Now he's afraid to drive it...it might get DIRTY! He shoulda restored a truck so he could DRIVE IT.

[echo72]

If you have an endless supply of NOS parts and MONEY, you could probably come close to making it perfect.

[cerjio]

Well I'm looking for a 72 swb super cheyenne, two tone red an white , 400/400, with a/c, p/b, p/w,cruise , buckete seats , that somebody bought an put in a barn , back in 72 an hasnt been seen yet ! Oh yea should be a climate controlled barn to !!!!