What the F**k??? Screwy drop stats... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

SCOTI · 05-31-2003, 05:45 PM

OK guys/gals, check this out. I did my Western Chassis flip kit w/shock relocators last week & decided to mount the 20's to see how they looked/fit. Man, they look f'ing sweet . . .... waaaay tucked up in the wheelwell.

Waitttttttttt a minute, tucked up in the wheelwell w/just a flip kit?????

Ok . . .... I figured the drop was exaggerated because the front was still @ stock height. I go out today & pull the front springs & swap some bags in their place. With the bags deflated & the front end resting solidly on the bumpstops & everything else bone factory stock, the measurements @ the axle C/L, @ the lip of the wheel opening are: F= 27.5; R= 25.0.

Before drop measurements were: F= 31.125; R= 32.5. So that equals a 7" drop w/just the flip kit.

This particular truck does have the 'HD' pkg w/8 leafs. At first I thought maybe I should have taken off the overload spring (since I've usually done this on other peoples trucks), but since I own a trailer, I might just need to use it for pulling one day & left it on. But as I look @ it, I don't think it would make a difference since the helper is the very bottom spring & doesn't effect rear end placement.

I also didn't tighten the leaf spring bushing bolts until the suspension was under load so the bushings aren't 'pre-loaded'. The rear is lower than in this pic. . . ..... what gives????

SCOTI · 05-31-2003, 06:14 PM

Ok, I just went back outside & pulled the snubbers & the front bags completely out. With the crossmember solidly against the control arm snubber mount, the front measurements are now @ 25.75", the rear still the same.

Suggestions??

**N2TRUX** · 06-01-2003, 09:30 PM

Scoti,
Ok, you have me confused here. I guess I haven't followed your posts or listened to Keith enough. I thought you were doing a static drop. Everything was making sense until you started talking about bags in the front???

Lets see if I understand what you are saying though. You did a full flip in the rear, with shackles and hangers? What were you expecting for drop from this? Shouldn't that get you 8" in the rear?

Not removing the overload spring would probably give you about 1/2" to 3/4" more drop due to the thickness of the leaf. If you think about it, it's basicly the same thingas a small lowering block....

SCOTI · 06-02-2003, 12:24 AM

Sorry for the confusion, it is a static drop only. I just slipped the bags in front to quickly drop the nose & see if it had an effect on the rear (it didn't).

The only thing done to the rear is the flip kit & shock extensions . . ..... the shackles/hangers are stock. I didn't think the overload would change overall drop sine it's actually on the bottom of the leaf pack & doesn't affect the location of the rear end housing. A lowering block only works because it actually sits directly below the housing (above the spring pack thus raising it) vs. below the spring pack.

Anyhow, I took today off from working on it (that freakin heat was killer on Sat), so I'll be putting the front back together Mon AM & see what I've got.

**Captkaos** · 06-02-2003, 02:21 PM

Each "flip kit" is different. Some make the axle perch "taller" than others. They can actually range from 5" to 7" potentially. Typically they are 6", but that is just typical. Pulling the overload on a flip won't change the height. You should be happy that you got more drop

Tom · 06-02-2003, 02:29 PM

I also put a wetern chassie flip kit on with the HD axle pack and got a big suprise. Lotsa drop! But I was happy. My truck is sitting PERFECT now. Even people who called me stupid for buying the drop stuff think it looks good now.

It was supposed to be a 5/7, I think it ended up more like 6/8.

SCOTI · 06-02-2003, 03:06 PM

I'm definitely pleased w/the amount of drop. I'm realllllyyyyyyyyy glad I did just the flip kit first instead of putting the shackles/hangers on as well only to find it's too much (although I still had to remove the hangers just to do the flip kit). Now hopefully I can get the front where I want it & still drive it daily. My beater is around 5-6" front drop & I like not having to worry about the control arms & crossmember.

**Captkaos** · 06-02-2003, 03:40 PM

Curious, Why did you have to take the hangers off?

SCOTI · 06-02-2003, 06:14 PM

The front leaf bolts (both sides) were rusted to the bushing sleeves & I couldn't pull the leafs out to get the rear end above them. It was either pull the hangers off (which I can do by myself) & pound out the bolts or pull the driveshaft loose, disconnect the brake line bulkhead, vent tube, e-brake cables (which I can do by myself) & put it all back & then bleed the brakes (which I can't do by myself). Lesser of 2 evils.

Of course, once I pulled the front apart I noticed the front flex lines were crap so they have to go & I'll have to get help anyway to bleed the brakes . . .... hindsight is 20/20 ya' know.

**N2TRUX** · 06-03-2003, 12:31 AM

Ok, I'm with you on everything now. I got lost there for a bit with the bag talk. Chris is correct. If the perch is short the drop is less than advertised.

I had to re-think the overload issue. You guys are correct. Since it is below the top leaf, it doesn't raise the axle any higher....

SCOTI · 06-03-2003, 09:57 AM

10 lashes w/a shop towel & your forgivin.

**Captkaos** · 06-03-2003, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCOTI
The front leaf bolts (both sides) were rusted to the bushing sleeves ......

Now that Sucks!

Quote:

Originally posted by N2TRUX
Ok, I'm with you on everything now. I got lost there for a bit with the bag talk. Chris is correct. If the perch is short the drop is less than advertised.

I had to re-think the overload issue. You guys are correct. Since it is below the top leaf, it doesn't raise the axle any higher....

You have to forgive Ken, he has been hanging around the Ford to long and it is getting to him. That and the fact that he hasn't been around a running Chevy in a LONG time, plus you know he is getting OLD!

SCOTI · 06-03-2003, 05:27 PM

OK. Got it put together this morning. Looks freakin' sweet if I may say so myself. Of course it sits right where I want it but I have no idea how I'm going to keep a-arms on it for any length of time. The C/L of the lower control arm shaft is a whopping 4" off the floor!

I still have to get some new front flex lines for the brakes & I'm gonna' go ahead & pop for some new calipers since I have to bleed it anyway. All I need is a few more parts . . .....

**Captkaos** · 06-03-2003, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCOTI
OK. Got it put together this morning. Looks freakin' sweet if I may say so myself.

PICS!!

**N2TRUX** · 06-03-2003, 10:29 PM

Yeah, go ahead with the Ford jokes. I would love to be a loyal GM fan, but what do they have to offer. The new SS?:p :p :p :p :p :p

Hey Scoti-

05-31-2003, 05:45 PM	#1
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	What the Fk??? Screwy drop stats... OK guys/gals, check this out. I did my Western Chassis flip kit w/shock relocators last week & decided to mount the 20's to see how they looked/fit. Man, they look f'ing sweet . . .... waaaay tucked up in the wheelwell. Waitttttttttt a minute, tucked up in the wheelwell w/just a flip kit????? Ok . . .... I figured the drop was exaggerated because the front was still @ stock height. I go out today & pull the front springs & swap some bags in their place. With the bags deflated & the front end resting solidly on the bumpstops & everything else bone factory stock, the measurements @ the axle C/L, @ the lip of the wheel opening are: F= 27.5; R= 25.0. Before drop measurements were: F= 31.125; R= 32.5. So that equals a 7" drop w/just the flip kit. This particular truck does have the 'HD' pkg w/8 leafs. At first I thought maybe I should have taken off the overload spring (since I've usually done this on other peoples trucks), but since I own a trailer, I might just need to use it for pulling one day & left it on. But as I look @ it, I don't think it would make a difference since the helper is the very bottom spring & doesn't effect rear end placement. I also didn't tighten the leaf spring bushing bolts until the suspension was under load so the bushings aren't 'pre-loaded'. The rear is lower than in this pic. . . ..... what gives???? Attached Images __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.**

05-31-2003, 06:14 PM	#2
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	Ok, I just went back outside & pulled the snubbers & the front bags completely out. With the crossmember solidly against the control arm snubber mount, the front measurements are now @ 25.75", the rear still the same. Suggestions?? __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-01-2003, 09:30 PM	#3
N2TRUX Happy to be here Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 39,023	Scoti, Ok, you have me confused here. I guess I haven't followed your posts or listened to Keith enough. I thought you were doing a static drop. Everything was making sense until you started talking about bags in the front??? Lets see if I understand what you are saying though. You did a full flip in the rear, with shackles and hangers? What were you expecting for drop from this? Shouldn't that get you 8" in the rear? Not removing the overload spring would probably give you about 1/2" to 3/4" more drop due to the thickness of the leaf. If you think about it, it's basicly the same thingas a small lowering block.... __________________ Follow me on Facebook and Instagram @N2trux.com Articles- "Jake" the 84 to 74 crewcab "Elwood" the77_Remix 85 GMC Sierra "Scarlett" "Refining Sierra"

06-02-2003, 12:24 AM	#4
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	Sorry for the confusion, it is a static drop only. I just slipped the bags in front to quickly drop the nose & see if it had an effect on the rear (it didn't). The only thing done to the rear is the flip kit & shock extensions . . ..... the shackles/hangers are stock. I didn't think the overload would change overall drop sine it's actually on the bottom of the leaf pack & doesn't affect the location of the rear end housing. A lowering block only works because it actually sits directly below the housing (above the spring pack thus raising it) vs. below the spring pack. Anyhow, I took today off from working on it (that freakin heat was killer on Sat), so I'll be putting the front back together Mon AM & see what I've got. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-02-2003, 02:21 PM	#5
Captkaos www.73-87chevytrucks.com Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 6,935	Each "flip kit" is different. Some make the axle perch "taller" than others. They can actually range from 5" to 7" potentially. Typically they are 6", but that is just typical. Pulling the overload on a flip won't change the height. You should be happy that you got more drop __________________ Chris Lucas 1973 Chevy C-10 1978 GMC Jimmy (2WD) - SOLD 1987 R10 twin turbo LS 1991 R3500 SRW CrewCab 1985 K5 diesel swapped project 1989 K5 2WD conversion w/ Vette susp Project Captkaos Customs 73-87chevytrucks.com

06-02-2003, 02:29 PM	#6
Tom driving is in my blood Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 5,703	I also put a wetern chassie flip kit on with the HD axle pack and got a big suprise. Lotsa drop! But I was happy. My truck is sitting PERFECT now. Even people who called me stupid for buying the drop stuff think it looks good now. It was supposed to be a 5/7, I think it ended up more like 6/8. __________________ -78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me.

06-02-2003, 03:06 PM	#7
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	I'm definitely pleased w/the amount of drop. I'm realllllyyyyyyyyy glad I did just the flip kit first instead of putting the shackles/hangers on as well only to find it's too much (although I still had to remove the hangers just to do the flip kit). Now hopefully I can get the front where I want it & still drive it daily. My beater is around 5-6" front drop & I like not having to worry about the control arms & crossmember. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-02-2003, 03:40 PM	#8
Captkaos www.73-87chevytrucks.com Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 6,935	Curious, Why did you have to take the hangers off? __________________ Chris Lucas 1973 Chevy C-10 1978 GMC Jimmy (2WD) - SOLD 1987 R10 twin turbo LS 1991 R3500 SRW CrewCab 1985 K5 diesel swapped project 1989 K5 2WD conversion w/ Vette susp Project Captkaos Customs 73-87chevytrucks.com

06-02-2003, 06:14 PM	#9
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	The front leaf bolts (both sides) were rusted to the bushing sleeves & I couldn't pull the leafs out to get the rear end above them. It was either pull the hangers off (which I can do by myself) & pound out the bolts or pull the driveshaft loose, disconnect the brake line bulkhead, vent tube, e-brake cables (which I can do by myself) & put it all back & then bleed the brakes (which I can't do by myself). Lesser of 2 evils. Of course, once I pulled the front apart I noticed the front flex lines were crap so they have to go & I'll have to get help anyway to bleed the brakes . . .... hindsight is 20/20 ya' know. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-03-2003, 12:31 AM	#10
N2TRUX Happy to be here Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 39,023	Ok, I'm with you on everything now. I got lost there for a bit with the bag talk. Chris is correct. If the perch is short the drop is less than advertised. I had to re-think the overload issue. You guys are correct. Since it is below the top leaf, it doesn't raise the axle any higher....

06-03-2003, 09:57 AM	#11
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	10 lashes w/a shop towel & your forgivin. __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-03-2003, 05:27 PM	#13
SCOTI Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: DALLAS,TX Posts: 21,924	OK. Got it put together this morning. Looks freakin' sweet if I may say so myself. Of course it sits right where I want it but I have no idea how I'm going to keep a-arms on it for any length of time. The C/L of the lower control arm shaft is a whopping 4" off the floor! I still have to get some new front flex lines for the brakes & I'm gonna' go ahead & pop for some new calipers since I have to bleed it anyway. All I need is a few more parts . . ..... __________________ 67SWB-B.B.RetroRod 64SWB-Recycle 89CCDually-Driver/Tow Truck 99CCSWB Driver All Fleetsides @rattlecankustoms in IG Building a small, high rpm engine with the perfect bore, stroke and rod ratio is very impressive. It's like a highly skilled Morrocan sword fighter with a Damascus Steel Scimitar..... *Cubic inches is like Indiana Jones with a cheap pistol.*

06-03-2003, 10:29 PM	#15
N2TRUX Happy to be here Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Cypress, TX Posts: 39,023	Yeah, go ahead with the Ford jokes. I would love to be a loyal GM fan, but what do they have to offer. The new SS?:p :p :p :p :p :p Hey Scoti- __________________ Follow me on Facebook and Instagram @N2trux.com Articles- "Jake" the 84 to 74 crewcab "Elwood" the77_Remix 85 GMC Sierra "Scarlett" "Refining Sierra"



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