th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

effects66 · 06-21-2011, 03:14 PM

OK, so it is finally that time that I would like to upgrade to overdrive. I have been starting my from the back to the front. Diff is all rebuilt with eaton posi and 3.55 gears. So now its time to tackle the tranny.

I have a th350 in it now. Just trying to get some opinions on what to do. I was going to go with a 700r4, but reading how these are just keep breaking if you play with it to hard. I am now thinking of fixing up my th350 (which still works good) and adding a gear vendors (under/overdrive) to it instead.

My engine right now is a 350, with a decent cam. A little tired but still goes strong. This will get replaced with a carbed LS2. probably not until after the summer closer to winter.

Whats your opinions?

dsy1 · 06-21-2011, 03:21 PM

I swapped my Th350 to a 2004R. The 2004R is essentially the same length as the Th350 so the driveshaft did not need modification. The mounting pad is different but I did not need a new crossmember since my existing one could just be moved back on the frame to use existing holes. 200's can be built to handle lots of horsepower, so you should add it to your list of options.

jbclassix · 06-21-2011, 03:25 PM

bruin_d · 06-21-2011, 03:32 PM

I think it cheaper and easier to go with one of the r4 trannies or even one of the newer 4LxxE ones if you're going to put an LS motor in it.

Warrens69GMC · 06-21-2011, 03:35 PM

6.0L and a 4L80e, get it all from a donor truck

effects66 · 06-21-2011, 04:09 PM

Thanks guys for the response.

A couple of questions:
1. Would a 200r4 bolt up to my 350 and an ls easily?
2. Is there anything special needed?
3. As for the 4lxxE series, does it matter which one or is one better than the other?

bruin_d · 06-21-2011, 04:10 PM

In my opinion, the best route would be what Warrens69GMC suggested.

bosco200 · 06-21-2011, 04:48 PM

Very nice truck....I love your shop too

MARKDTN · 06-21-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruin_d

In my opinion, the best route would be what Warrens69GMC suggested.

Me too. LSx swap all the way!

But, a properly built 700R4 is a good transmission. You MUST adjust the TV cable before you start it up. A 700R4 is critically dependant on that cable adjustment.

200R4 is OK, but it must be built to handle any power. The largest CID stock application was behind the 307 Oldsmobile. It was never available factory behind a big block or even a 350. It can handle power, but not in stock form.

bruin_d · 06-21-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

Me too. LSx swap all the way!

But, a properly built 700R4 is a good transmission. You MUST adjust the TV cable before you start it up. A 700R4 is critically dependant on that cable adjustment.

200R4 is OK, but it must be built to handle any power. The largest CID stock application was behind the 307 Oldsmobile. It was never available factory behind a big block or even a 350. It can handle power, but not in stock form.

Wasn't the 200r4 also in the Buick Grand National?

**nightmare** · 06-21-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruin_d

Wasn't the 200r4 also in the Buick Grand National?

Yes, but that was a 3.8L (albeit a turbo 3.8L, but still a V6 nonetheless)

pmpski_1 · 06-22-2011, 12:13 AM

Since you're doing the LS swap eventually, you may want to listen to these guys. OTOH, if you don't, I would do the TH350 GV combo. I've read way too many stories of broken 700R4s, although many have them and love them. But it's rare to hear of a GV failure, and the TH350 is pretty tough too.

I currently have 4.10s and a TH350, and I'll eventually throw a GV in there. Someday.

Lemield · 06-22-2011, 12:54 PM

I have a TH350 with a GV unit in my 70 CST. Love it!

project67-stepside · 06-22-2011, 06:17 PM

get a good built 700 the parts are way cheaper and easier to find than the 200

67ChevyRedneck · 06-22-2011, 06:31 PM

If the price isn't an issue I'd go with the gear vendors unit, however, I went with a 700R.

effects66 · 06-22-2011, 07:37 PM

Great info guys. thanks

Not to throw something else in the mix, I have been told the 4l80e is pretty strong. But, you need the ecm to run it. Not sure if it would just bolt up or not.

effects66 · 06-22-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemield

I have a TH350 with a GV unit in my 70 CST. Love it!

What rear end do you have? How is freeway driving rpm (at lets say 70)

haysonj · 06-22-2011, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by effects66

What rear end do you have? How is freeway driving rpm (at lets say 70)

I have the GV with 4:10 in a corp 14 bolt and a T400. Cruises at 2200 rpm at 65 MPH But then I also have 35 in tires and a FI 383. I built it to tow a 5000 pound boat and it does real well.

jbclassix · 06-22-2011, 11:15 PM

The 4L80E is, in a nut shell, an electronically controlled TH400 with an overdrive. Most of the internals are interchangeable. I have had two trucks with them and it is personally my favorite 4 speed automatic.

Here is something to consider in comparing the Gear Vendor to the 700-r4, 200-4r, 4L60E, and 4L80E. In all of these transmissions you have a lock up clutch. This feature reduces engine RPM by at least 300 RPM and reduces transmission temperatures. If you put a GV behind a TH350 or a TH400 you do have an overdrive, but you don't have the lock-up. This is why a GV is great for towing. It gives you the extra RPM, but doesn't give you the cruising RPM of a 4 speed. The GV is a GREAT unit, but the price makes the 4 speed an attractive choice.

Something else to consider is the 700r-4 (and 4L60E) and the 200-4r have a lower first gear than the TH350, TH400, and the 4L80E since it uses the same planetary gear cluster as the TH400. The 700r-4 an the 200-4r also have a higher 4th gear than what you would have using a GV behind a TH350 or TH400.

In comparison of the TH200-4r and the TH700-R4, the 200 is PERFECT if you are running a Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, or Caddy. They came with both the BOP and Chevy bolt patterns. The 200 is an easier swap for the TH350 than the 700 is. But the 200 does not have a removable tail housing, so if you want to run one in a 4wd application, you would need a divorced t-case. The 700 is more plentiful because it had a run of nearly 3 decades!

If you plan on doing mild, light towing, and since your LS2 will be carbed, a good built 200 or 700 would be an excellent choice.

What about a transmission guaranteed forever?
200-4r guaranteed forever
700-r4 guaranteed forever

Pricey but possibly worth it compared to a reman with a GV

pmpski_1 · 06-23-2011, 12:03 AM

Good post jbclassix.

Rooster's 67 · 06-23-2011, 12:58 AM

Its been said already, but if your planning an LS series swap already, personally I would use the 4lXXe from a donor vehicle (motor too). (id go FI too but thats me)

As for the Gear Vender OD's they are a very pricey units at $2500-$3000. and ya still need a transmission.
you can buy a lot of built TH350,TH400 OR 700r4's for less.(still have left over for driveshaft,joints,carrier,mounts,dipstick,fluid, and still be under $3000)

Personally I would go for the 4Lxxe series because of the planned motor swap, but my second choice would be a well built 700r4. I had a 700r4 built that was behind a street/strip 468BBC in an 80 Malibu. she worked great for the 35,000 miles I hammered on her. But my buddy was a reputable tranny builder too.

Lemield · 06-23-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by effects66

What rear end do you have? How is freeway driving rpm (at lets say 70)

The rear ratio is 3:73 with stock 15 inch size tires. IIRC, I'm thinking about 3000 rpms at 70......didn't buy the GV for towing or anything else...don't really care about mileage either...just bought it because it's an overdrive in any gear....unlike a 700R4 which has 4 forward gears, I can have over or under in all 3 forward gears...so it's kind of like having a 6 speed....I just like gadgets so I put one in....just something different.

VWBeamer · 06-23-2011, 12:00 PM

I would go with a 4L80E. and if you do run an LS, why take a step backwards and put a carb on it? The electronics are nothing to be afraid of, and will make more power and deliver better gas mileage.

You can get a 4L80E cheaper than a 700R4 or 200R4 of comparable strength.

A simple stand alone controller will be easier to adjust and install than all the lock up switches, TV cables, etc.

Examples of good 4l80E transmissions are on ebay now for $400-$1300.

The controller is $500.00.

http://optishift.com/

or for those that like to roll their own.

http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html

The 4l80e can handle a LOT of abuse and HP.

VWBeamer · 06-23-2011, 12:04 PM

BTW, sweet ride and nice garage.

06-21-2011, 03:14 PM	#1
effects66 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Jose Posts: 206	th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? OK, so it is finally that time that I would like to upgrade to overdrive. I have been starting my from the back to the front. Diff is all rebuilt with eaton posi and 3.55 gears. So now its time to tackle the tranny. I have a th350 in it now. Just trying to get some opinions on what to do. I was going to go with a 700r4, but reading how these are just keep breaking if you play with it to hard. I am now thinking of fixing up my th350 (which still works good) and adding a gear vendors (under/overdrive) to it instead. My engine right now is a 350, with a decent cam. A little tired but still goes strong. This will get replaced with a carbed LS2. probably not until after the summer closer to winter. Whats your opinions?

06-21-2011, 03:21 PM	#2
dsy1 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 128	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? I swapped my Th350 to a 2004R. The 2004R is essentially the same length as the Th350 so the driveshaft did not need modification. The mounting pad is different but I did not need a new crossmember since my existing one could just be moved back on the frame to use existing holes. 200's can be built to handle lots of horsepower, so you should add it to your list of options.

06-21-2011, 03:25 PM	#3
jbclassix Junk Yartist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 2,203	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? __________________ -Jeremy YOU ONLY FAIL IF YOU STOP TRYING 70 Crew Cab Build Link 70 GMC Suburban 4X4 build thread 95 Yukon Daily Driver Rebuilding an NP205

06-21-2011, 03:32 PM	#4
bruin_d Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 578	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? I think it cheaper and easier to go with one of the r4 trannies or even one of the newer 4LxxE ones if you're going to put an LS motor in it. __________________ My 72 Suburban Build - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=454019 79 Volvo Turbo LS Build - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=594252 Buggy Bed for son - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=657350

06-21-2011, 03:35 PM	#5
Warrens69GMC Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Safford,AZ Posts: 3,613	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? 6.0L and a 4L80e, get it all from a donor truck

06-21-2011, 04:09 PM	#6
effects66 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Jose Posts: 206	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Thanks guys for the response. A couple of questions: 1. Would a 200r4 bolt up to my 350 and an ls easily? 2. Is there anything special needed? 3. As for the 4lxxE series, does it matter which one or is one better than the other?

06-21-2011, 04:10 PM	#7
bruin_d Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 578	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? In my opinion, the best route would be what Warrens69GMC suggested. __________________ My 72 Suburban Build - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=454019 79 Volvo Turbo LS Build - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=594252 Buggy Bed for son - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=657350

06-21-2011, 04:48 PM	#8
bosco200 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ste. Genevieve, MO Posts: 526	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Very nice truck....I love your shop too

06-22-2011, 12:13 AM	#12
pmpski_1 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 505	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Since you're doing the LS swap eventually, you may want to listen to these guys. OTOH, if you don't, I would do the TH350 GV combo. I've read way too many stories of broken 700R4s, although many have them and love them. But it's rare to hear of a GV failure, and the TH350 is pretty tough too. I currently have 4.10s and a TH350, and I'll eventually throw a GV in there. Someday. __________________ Curry in a Hurry: SB rebuild for my 71 C20

06-22-2011, 12:54 PM	#13
Lemield Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arvada Colorado Posts: 1,321	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? I have a TH350 with a GV unit in my 70 CST. Love it! __________________ Larry 1949 Willys CJ2A, Kubota Turbo Diesel engine, Warn Overdrive, 11 inch brakes, 12volt, Warn M8000 Winch "Little Green" 1970 Rustoleum Roller Red C20 Custom Camper 454 TH400 "Big Red" 1971 K20 6.2 Turbo Diesel 4x4 4spd Ranger Overdrive "Pumpkin Wagon" 2005 VW Beetle Diesel 44+ MPG "Silver Bullet"

06-22-2011, 06:17 PM	#14
project67-stepside Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: mesa,az Posts: 94	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? get a good built 700 the parts are way cheaper and easier to find than the 200 __________________ it usual better and faster if u figure it out yourself!!!!

06-22-2011, 06:31 PM	#15
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? If the price isn't an issue I'd go with the gear vendors unit, however, I went with a 700R. __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications!

06-22-2011, 07:37 PM	#16
effects66 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Jose Posts: 206	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Great info guys. thanks Not to throw something else in the mix, I have been told the 4l80e is pretty strong. But, you need the ecm to run it. Not sure if it would just bolt up or not.

06-22-2011, 11:15 PM	#19
jbclassix Junk Yartist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Greeley, CO Posts: 2,203	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? The 4L80E is, in a nut shell, an electronically controlled TH400 with an overdrive. Most of the internals are interchangeable. I have had two trucks with them and it is personally my favorite 4 speed automatic. Here is something to consider in comparing the Gear Vendor to the 700-r4, 200-4r, 4L60E, and 4L80E. In all of these transmissions you have a lock up clutch. This feature reduces engine RPM by at least 300 RPM and reduces transmission temperatures. If you put a GV behind a TH350 or a TH400 you do have an overdrive, but you don't have the lock-up. This is why a GV is great for towing. It gives you the extra RPM, but doesn't give you the cruising RPM of a 4 speed. The GV is a GREAT unit, but the price makes the 4 speed an attractive choice. Something else to consider is the 700r-4 (and 4L60E) and the 200-4r have a lower first gear than the TH350, TH400, and the 4L80E since it uses the same planetary gear cluster as the TH400. The 700r-4 an the 200-4r also have a higher 4th gear than what you would have using a GV behind a TH350 or TH400. In comparison of the TH200-4r and the TH700-R4, the 200 is PERFECT if you are running a Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, or Caddy. They came with both the BOP and Chevy bolt patterns. The 200 is an easier swap for the TH350 than the 700 is. But the 200 does not have a removable tail housing, so if you want to run one in a 4wd application, you would need a divorced t-case. The 700 is more plentiful because it had a run of nearly 3 decades! If you plan on doing mild, light towing, and since your LS2 will be carbed, a good built 200 or 700 would be an excellent choice. What about a transmission guaranteed forever? 200-4r guaranteed forever 700-r4 guaranteed forever Pricey but possibly worth it compared to a reman with a GV __________________ -Jeremy YOU ONLY FAIL IF YOU STOP TRYING 70 Crew Cab Build Link 70 GMC Suburban 4X4 build thread 95 Yukon Daily Driver Rebuilding an NP205

06-23-2011, 12:03 AM	#20
pmpski_1 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 505	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Good post jbclassix. __________________ Curry in a Hurry: SB rebuild for my 71 C20



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06-23-2011, 12:58 AM	#21
Rooster's 67 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: DFW Posts: 765	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? Its been said already, but if your planning an LS series swap already, personally I would use the 4lXXe from a donor vehicle (motor too). (id go FI too but thats me) As for the Gear Vender OD's they are a very pricey units at $2500-$3000. and ya still need a transmission. you can buy a lot of built TH350,TH400 OR 700r4's for less.(still have left over for driveshaft,joints,carrier,mounts,dipstick,fluid, and still be under $3000) Personally I would go for the 4Lxxe series because of the planned motor swap, but my second choice would be a well built 700r4. I had a 700r4 built that was behind a street/strip 468BBC in an 80 Malibu. she worked great for the 35,000 miles I hammered on her. But my buddy was a reputable tranny builder too. __________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

06-23-2011, 12:00 PM	#23
VWBeamer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: GA Posts: 281	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? I would go with a 4L80E. and if you do run an LS, why take a step backwards and put a carb on it? The electronics are nothing to be afraid of, and will make more power and deliver better gas mileage. You can get a 4L80E cheaper than a 700R4 or 200R4 of comparable strength. A simple stand alone controller will be easier to adjust and install than all the lock up switches, TV cables, etc. Examples of good 4l80E transmissions are on ebay now for $400-$1300. The controller is $500.00. http://optishift.com/ or for those that like to roll their own. http://www.msgpio.com/manuals/mshift/index.html The 4l80e can handle a LOT of abuse and HP. Last edited by VWBeamer; 06-23-2011 at 12:03 PM.

06-23-2011, 12:04 PM	#24
VWBeamer Registered User Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: GA Posts: 281	Re: th350, 700r4 or gear vendors?? BTW, sweet ride and nice garage.

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