T5 "scare" - lookin for yer thoughts

[jocko]

Gents,
Tonight while temporarily mounting the bearing retaining sleeve (or whatever it's called - the sleeve the release bearing slides on that is bolted to the front of the trans... that thingy) I think I accidentally overtorqued one of the 4 retaining bolts. It's an aluminum case and the torque specs were only 15 ft lbs. I was only temp mounting it because I still have to take it back off and take a hacksaw to the sleeve length - but in the process I felt one of the bolts start to "give" or feel like it was about to be overtorqued - didn't think I was anywhere near the spec yet and was only "finger" tightening them - but, aaaa, with a wrench.

Anyhoo - took out my in-lb wrench (and did the math) - the other 3 bolts I ca safely get 15 ft-lb on, but on this one it starts to slip around 10 or so. I'm thinking that with some black loctite gasket maker (required on the final install) that 10 ft-lbs is gonna be sufficient as the other 3 will ensure the proper bearing preload for the roller bearing on the input shaft (it's a WC T5).

Thoughts?

Makes me a little nervous. The idea of a bolt comin loose and getting munched inside the bell hsg/pressure plate area makes me wanna barf, especially after the nightmare of getting that stuff in around the bell hsg cross-member. I can always just break down and buy a tremec TKO or something, but the only thing worse than spending that much money is spending it after you dumped a pantload into a T5 swap first... So, curious if you all think this thing would come loose, affect bearing preload as long as the other 3 are properly torqued, etc etc.

Any tips for getting the bolt to 15 ft lbs would be much appreciated. Can't think of any off the top of my head - no way to get in the case without removing the input shaft - ok, let me rephrase that - I have NO intention of opening the case. Hope I haven't just shat a great WC T5 by apparently getting to the gym a little too much...

Considered using blue thread locker on the bolt, but it needs to be sealed also and the two don't mix very well (do they??)

[Delmo]

Lock tight and you'll be good. Just watch for leaks. manual or hydraulic clutch?

[jocko]

Thanks much Delmo. I'm thinking blue loctite should be good to go. Red might be a bit too much - might never get it back out!

It's a manual clutch. Am waiting on a spacer from Hamilton to compensate for the longer input shaft - and that spacer also puts the somewhat shorter length of input shaft splines in the right place. It's kind of an oddball 93 S10 WC T5 (only year for a WC in a T5, I think... and it's had the mech speedo drive added) so kind of a nice piece. I am going to have to cut the bearing retainer collar down a bit - it's awful close to hitting the clutch disk hub - it's a really long retainer - something like 4.5" or so.

Got everything back in except the trans (resurfaced the flywheel and put a new clutch/pp in it). Just waitin on the spacer - and they said it would be about 3 more weeks til they get a new foundry supplier on line. Hadn't planned on waiting that long, but oh well. Can't cut the hole in the floor til I get the spacer - have heard 2 different thickness for it, so don't want to cut just yet...

Thanks again - I will go with a good squirt of loctite on the bolt (all of them for that matter - and maybe a little sealant at the top of the threads near the head just to eliminate any leaks.

[padresag]

install a heli coil and you will feel more comfortable. that is what they are made for. your local auto parts place should have them.
ron
that thingy is called the frt brg retainer

[Delmo]

Yep you could always go with heli coil if you think it needs it. I have a spacer thats a bit over an inch that came with a hydraulic throw out bearing I used once. Guess it's a bit small though.

[jocko]

I was thinkin of using a helicoil - but wouldn't I have to drill it out then insert it (i.e. trying to avoid shavings in the case)?

Actually a 1" spacer is probably too thick for my setup - would put the clutch splines too far fwd on the T5 i/p shaft splines (if my math is correct - that's a big if....)

Ok, it's gonna sound pretty geeky, but I was havin such a hard time picturing the clearances between pilot brg, clutch disk hub, i/p shaft, and release brg, that I kinda geeked out, and put my measurements on paper - then cut them out and overlaid them on each other to figure it out... What can I say. I likes my ducks in a row. Have heard a thousand different opinions on how much to cut the shaft, grind off the splines, space it out, etc - but I'm starting to wonder if there's not a few folks driving around with either their input shaft pilot tip barely engaging the pilot bearing or perhaps their clutch disk almost coming completely off the splines at at one extreme of the clutch arm throw or the other... Maybe luck, or maybe I'm just overthinkin it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Anyway - once I get the spacer in the mail, gonna stick it in and hope for the best. Been a while since I've put a helicoil in, seems I recall some drillin's involved and I'm hopin to keep shavings out of the case. hmmm.

[padresag]

a heli coil should go in without drilling. loctite is only meant for good threads as a precaution against backing out. your truck.
if you are spazzing over the difference between what your pilot shaft is and what it should be is quite simple. just measure from the frt of the pilot bushing (radiator end) to the face of the bellhousing. then measure from the frt of the pilot shaft to the face of the trans housing, not just to the frt of the input brg housing- you want to measure to the surface that mates up to the face of the bellhousing. the difference is what you have to eliminate or shim out(spacer)
ron

[jocko]

Thanks Ron. Actually, pretty sure a heli-coil does require drilling, at least the old kit of them I have that had a few instructions in it says that much, but I'll look into it. As for input shaft length/spacer thickness, that was not the question and those measurements are already made and the hamilton adapter compensates correctly. There's also more to it than just the mounting face to mounting face measurements - the location of the splines on the T5 relative to the clutch disk splines is also very important because the splines on the T5 only cover a little bit of the i/p shaft as compared to the stock 3-speed which cover most of the shaft. Anyway, the question was about the other gotcha if you don't adjust it: bearing retainer housing length. It just needs to be shortened a little bit, that's all, - or it will likely impact the clutch disk hub because it's so long.

[oldtrux]

hey jocko,if you do have to drill out taking the top cover off of the t5 isn't a real big deal.took mine off,no problems,just make sure it's in nuetral.not a bad idea to have apeak inside anyway.big magnet on bottom of case.you can look for fir,lol

[padresag]

Originally Posted by jocko

Thanks Ron. Actually, pretty sure a heli-coil does require drilling, at least the old kit of them I have that had a few instructions in it says that much, but I'll look into it. As for input shaft length/spacer thickness, that was not the question and those measurements are already made and the hamilton adapter compensates correctly. There's also more to it than just the mounting face to mounting face measurements - the location of the splines on the T5 relative to the clutch disk splines is also very important because the splines on the T5 only cover a little bit of the i/p shaft as compared to the stock 3-speed which cover most of the shaft. Anyway, the question was about the other gotcha if you don't adjust it: bearing retainer housing length. It just needs to be shortened a little bit, that's all, - or it will likely impact the clutch disk hub because it's so long.

I know. I have done mine. it is a well documented procedure
ron

[shortbed70]

Put some grease on the bit and drill slow then tap with grease on your helicoil bit install coil and feel good about it. I wouldn't think a few aluminum shavings in a slush box would hurt much.
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[bama63]

i would go with the heli-coil and as shortbed70 stated a little grease on the drill bit and tap will keep most of the shavings intact, the small amount of alum shavings that may enter the trans wont hurt a thing, i have done many of the old muncies and t-10s used in my race cars and never had a single problem. and if your like me you would always have that "BOLT" haunting you every time you drove your truck

[Delmo]

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Hydrau...Tool,3168.html

[jocko]

oldtrux - i thought about that - don't you have to pull the tailshaft to get the top off? (I'm not sure)

thanks shortbed and bama, that's a good tip. bama, you're correct about the haunting bolt... and your experience with having done this in the past kinda gives me a warm fuzzy - I agree with both of you - using the grease and installing the helicoil will probably help me sleep easier! Good to know the alum, if any, that gets in there has never been an issue for you. That helps! Thanks again.

Thanks Delmo, appreciate the link - I do have a manual release bearing, but I think the gauge can still be used to measure some stuff for it also. I think I can eyeball the proper length of the bearing cover - there is a pretty wide range between where the release bearing would come off the front of it and where it would bottom out on the bottom of it. That's a cool tool.

[oldtrux]

yes tou do have to pull tailsection.

[jocko]

thanks oldtrux - i will take a look at doing that when it comes time to drill. i can't cinch it down until I get the spacer from Hamilton and figure out how much to chop off the bearing retainer. then i'll do the helicoil. Just bought one, and of course they only come as a set... that's a lot of $ for just a little twist of metal. But I'm glad they make em.

Will do the grease on the drill first, but if suspicious a big chunk falls inside, will crack it open and go fishin in the case. thanks again for the help.