How far can the tweeters be from the mids

[jugernot]

I was thinking of putting these in the truck. The MIDS in the doors and the and TWEETERS in the door pilars or head linger. Will that be ok or should they be closer together.

I thought about just doing a COAXIAL version of this speaker, but was worried that I wouldnt hear the tweeters.

Orion® XTR62

6.5-Inch 2-Way Component System

Product # XTR62
Power (Peak / RMS) 120 Watts / 60 Watts
Nominal Impedence 4 ohm
Frequency Response 75Hz - 22KHz
Depth (Inches) 2

[pockets]

they should be as close as possible for best imaging and sound. Ideally coaxes are the best arrangement, however few companies put their best speakers in this arrangement. Great distances between the two can also lead to phasing problems and other sonic nuances.

As a practical matter if you don't care about staging, imaging and all that, put them where you want. The casual listening probably won't notice the difference if they don't know what the are listening for.

As a geewiz, FYI, kickpanel placement is very popular for imaging in pro audio cars as it gives the most equal distance possible between left and right sides. Using the balance knob isn't quite the same thing

[jugernot]

Originally Posted by pockets

they should be as close as possible for best imaging and sound. Ideally coaxes are the best arrangement, however few companies put their best speakers in this arrangement. Great distances between the two can also lead to phasing problems and other sonic nuances.

As a practical matter if you don't care about staging, imaging and all that, put them where you want. The casual listening probably won't notice the difference if they don't know what the are listening for.

As a geewiz, FYI, kickpanel placement is very popular for imaging in pro audio cars as it gives the most equal distance possible between left and right sides. Using the balance knob isn't quite the same thing

Thanks, well I guess I just get the Coaxial version

Orion® XTR602

6-Inch 2-Way Coaxial Speaker
Model Number XTR602
Power (Peak / RMS) 100 Watts / 50 Watts
Frequency Response 85Hz - 22KHz
Sensitivity 86dB
Depth (Inches) 1.75

[ProStreet68SB]

Originally Posted by pockets

they should be as close as possible for best imaging and sound. Ideally coaxes are the best arrangement, however few companies put their best speakers in this arrangement. Great distances between the two can also lead to phasing problems and other sonic nuances.

As a practical matter if you don't care about staging, imaging and all that, put them where you want. The casual listening probably won't notice the difference if they don't know what the are listening for.

As a geewiz, FYI, kickpanel placement is very popular for imaging in pro audio cars as it gives the most equal distance possible between left and right sides. Using the balance knob isn't quite the same thing

Coaxs are not the best arrangement. Thats why companies make their BEST setup as a component set.

to the OP. With a good coax set you should be able to hear the tweeter. And orion is a great company. The component set actually has a higher sensitivity rating, so thats what I would choose. Just mount your tweeter in your door. I'm not sure if they're clockable tweeters, but if they are, just mount them up and to the front of the speaker and clock them up towards the driver

[pockets]

I've read a lot of professional articles that would disagree with you. Ideally sound should come from two points, left and right. deviation from that, i.e. two axis from a single side can muddle the sound. In practice it doesn't happen all that often, but if separating them was the best route people wouldn't put them close together. Bass is an exception because it is omnidirectional, especially in a car.

There have been high quality coaxes made and in those the manufacturer takes a component set and mounts the tweeter over the midrange driver. High quality coaxes are harder to manufacture than high quality components, so they are rare.

And if you care about imaging, you don't aim the speakers at the driver, you aim it towards the center of the vehicle, such as the dome light or even at the opposite seat (driver side speakers pointing towards the passenger, and vice-versa)

[ProStreet68SB]

Originally Posted by pockets

I've read a lot of professional articles that would disagree with you. Ideally sound should come from two points, left and right. deviation from that, i.e. two axis from a single side can muddle the sound. In practice it doesn't happen all that often, but if separating them was the best route people wouldn't put them close together. Bass is an exception because it is omnidirectional, especially in a car.

There have been high quality coaxes made and in those the manufacturer takes a component set and mounts the tweeter over the midrange driver. High quality coaxes are harder to manufacture than high quality components, so they are rare.

And if you care about imaging, you don't aim the speakers at the driver, you aim it towards the center of the vehicle, such as the dome light or even at the opposite seat (driver side speakers pointing towards the passenger, and vice-versa)

For imaging (lets say in a MECA sq judging). It all depends on how you're doing judging (for arguments sake we'll use the single judge class). In this class the judge sits in the drivers seat and listens to your set up. The objective is make it seam as if the drivers seat in the middle front row of a concert of any type. There for most speakers are aimed at the driver and most speakers are in front (normally a set of mids and sub are all thats needed in the back). And as to deal with imaging, a high end HU or High end amp, have built in Delay that you can adjust so that all the soundwaves reach you at the same time even though they are leaving the speakers at different times.

Now 2 judge format is harder, you essentially have two sound stages, one for each side. (judge in driver seat and judge in passenger seat) Then you must blend in the middle for the best overall score. This past years winner basically took a Tube chassis car with a stock car body on it, and shoved the seat as far back and as close to the middle as he could.

[motornut]

i cut the tweeters out of a pioneer set
made small boxes to aim them as i couldn't here them to well
don't need as much power to hear the high as the lows

[jimmydean]

My mid is in the vent hole and my tweet is the lump above the window crank in the door panel. They sound very good there. I was going to put the tweet in the kick panels, too but didn't like the sound.

[jimmydean]

I am still thinking of adding a 4" in the bottom of the door, but I haven't gotten that far.

[stich626]

I'd do the seperates, coax are a compromise.. at best..
highs radate in a straight line and the reason for "dome" tweeters
you want them aiming at the ears, within reason, the pro's make it happen, you don't need to spend weeks building a mount to place it in the truck..
in a standard cab truck you really can't get the tweeter far enough away from the mids to have an issue.. you'd have to put the mid driver in the kick and the tweeter behind your head to have a timing issue..
your truck I'd put the mids in the kicks and the tweeters in the upper door.(as that panel is replaceble if needed. kick panels that aim the speakers at you, then put both in the kicks.. tweeters don't like dirt.. so I don't like mounting them that low..
my truck was already cut so there is 6by9's in the rear of the door, 6.5's in the front of the door, 6.5" in the kick panels and the matching tweeter in the dash(beside the a/c vents)
once the tank is out of cab.. a single 12" sub will go back there and move the 6 by 9's to back there.. looks like you have no issue cutting (see dash) if you put the speakers in the doors, you may chase rattles.. and get the foam speaker backers to keep them dry

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by stich626

I'd do the seperates, coax are a compromise.. at best..
highs radate in a straight line and the reason for "dome" tweeters
you want them aiming at the ears, within reason, the pro's make it happen, you don't need to spend weeks building a mount to place it in the truck..
in a standard cab truck you really can't get the tweeter far enough away from the mids to have an issue.. you'd have to put the mid driver in the kick and the tweeter behind your head to have a timing issue..
your truck I'd put the mids in the kicks and the tweeters in the upper door.(as that panel is replaceble if needed. kick panels that aim the speakers at you, then put both in the kicks.. tweeters don't like dirt.. so I don't like mounting them that low..
my truck was already cut so there is 6by9's in the rear of the door, 6.5's in the front of the door, 6.5" in the kick panels and the matching tweeter in the dash(beside the a/c vents)
once the tank is out of cab.. a single 12" sub will go back there and move the 6 by 9's to back there.. looks like you have no issue cutting (see dash) if you put the speakers in the doors, you may chase rattles.. and get the foam speaker backers to keep them dry

Those are slick. I made a fiberglass pocket for the kick panel vent to protect the speaker. The tweeter pod protects the back side of the tweeter.

[kieth]

I will probably not go this high tech but just thought I would ask.
1. Tweeters can be very small, why can we not place them above the door toward the front of the vehicle 1 aimed at the driver the other at the passenger.

alternative: I have a 66 gmc and I have room on the dash to put a small tweeter facing the passenger and the driver, Then I could place 1 speaker in the center of the dash facing upward that has 2 mid ranges pointed toward the rider and passenger.

Then a mono sub behind the seat . ??

Would this work or am I creating more problems than I am elimanating. ps I am not look for a competition system just good sound. Thanks Kieth

Here is a pictu re of the dash drvr side
http://kieth.smugmug.com/Trucks/66-G...738746_6RPBQ7f


pass side

http://kieth.smugmug.com/Trucks/66-G...8_prjBSsx-A-LB

[motornut]

Originally Posted by kieth

I will probably not go this high tech but just thought I would ask.
1. Tweeters can be very small, why can we not place them above the door toward the front of the vehicle 1 aimed at the driver the other at the passenger.

alternative: I have a 66 gmc and I have room on the dash to put a small tweeter facing the passenger and the driver, Then I could place 1 speaker in the center of the dash facing upward that has 2 mid ranges pointed toward the rider and passenger.

Then a mono sub behind the seat . ??

Would this work or am I creating more problems than I am elimanating. ps I am not look for a competition system just good sound. Thanks Kieth

Here is a pictu re of the dash drvr side
http://kieth.smugmug.com/Trucks/66-G...738746_6RPBQ7f


pass side

http://kieth.smugmug.com/Trucks/66-G...8_prjBSsx-A-LB

how many speakers in total,
myself i always prefer left and right subs for seperate hits,
if it's not for comp try working it with a left and right rear box,
ported up by the belts?,for lots of feel
i use small project boxes to hold tweeters (for staging/testing but they went unnoticed so i keep using them)
and you use two sided tape to move the tweets till you "got it"
i'll go see if i can find some...

[kieth]

1. i was thinking of 2 tweeters either in the dash or up above the door sill . (could be pointed without interferance) 20 watts rms

2 mids, in the dash where the old single speaker usually went 50 watts rms

3. 1 sub in the back ?? 150 watts rms




? will it sound ok at normal listening levels?

[Riveted1]

Originally Posted by pockets

they should be as close as possible for best imaging and sound. Ideally coaxes are the best arrangement, however few companies put their best speakers in this arrangement. Great distances between the two can also lead to phasing problems and other sonic nuances.

As a practical matter if you don't care about staging, imaging and all that, put them where you want. The casual listening probably won't notice the difference if they don't know what the are listening for.

As a geewiz, FYI, kickpanel placement is very popular for imaging in pro audio cars as it gives the most equal distance possible between left and right sides. Using the balance knob isn't quite the same thing

Pockets you have it right. A WELL MADE single point-source speaker is better than separates. BUT it is install dependent, and the TYPICAL automobile is an unforgiving environment. Most people don't install speakers in the best locations, i.e. they default to the doors, so separates are a good compromise. You gave good info, but I think it's above and beyond what the OP is trying to accomplish.

As you noted though, most people will never notice the difference.

With all that said, if you're going to mount your speakers in the doors, MOST people will be happier with separates. Mids low in the doors and tweets by the window crank or even in the A-pillars. My $.02