Problems with engine pull 71

[Hisroth]

Hello all, new here. I actually had problems getting the registration email that must have gone to my spam folder as all of the latest ones have as well.

I did get the happy birthday wish a few weeks ago, so figured the registration must have worked and I just missed it. Anyway, finally got it going and here I am.

A bit of background. I bought a junk 71 C-10 with the hopes that I'd have it done by the time my 2 year old son is 16 and can drive it, lol. I've got a 350 out of a 93 suburban and a 700r4 to go in it that has been made carbeurated instead of the TBI it came with.

But I've been stuck for about 5 hours just trying to get the old motor out...
It's an inline 6 with a 4 speed manual. I've gotten everything loose, I know this because when I try to hoist the block, it lifts 6 inches out of the truck, however, no matter what I do, i can't separate it from the transmission for some reason. I've taken 6 bolts out I believe, removed the 4 bolts holding on the U-joint to the tranmission so that if it wanted to come out as well it could, but the shifter hump keeps catching inside the truck. No big deal, I'll take the transmission out after I get the engine out, but here's the problem. I can't get them to seperate, I can get an inch gap at the top and a half inch at the bottom, but the transmission won't let go. I've tried jacking up the read of the tranny with no luck also. I've taken a crow bar and tried going from one side to the other to wedge it off while there is a tiny amount of pressure on the jack.

I can't get anything to work, and can't get the both of them out together either because of the shifter hump getting stuck in the hole to the cab.

Is there something obvious I'm missing or do I just need to keep working at the bottom side where it seems to be catching?

This is my first engine pull, but I feel like I was going strong until this hickup. Any hints or questions to help clarify the situation would be greatly appreciated.

[JimKshortstep4x4]

Welcome to the 67-72 Chevrolet Truck Board from West Michigan!

If you have a stick shift, is the clutch Z-bar out of the way?

Jim

[rsavage]

Welcome to the board. I assume that you have removed the driveshaft and taken all four bolts out of the transmission ( two of which have to be taken out on the bottom from the bellhousing side)? The shifter on a truck 4 speed can be removed by pressing down on the collar (spherical thing as the shifter enters the transmission) and turning it about 1/4 turn as you are holding it down (make sure the transmission is in neutral). All wiring disconnected? Clutch linkage as Jim mentioned? Bellhousing motor mount bolts out of the crossmember? You could be hung up on the clutch now that it is separated partly an at an angle. Triple check that everything is unhooked. Good luck - keep us posted.

[w3lfd]

Not sure on the 6, but on my v8 removal, there is a plate that goes across the bellhousing, in front of the flywheel, that is in there for the starter.

That plate will hold the motor in due to the fact that it prevents the bottom of the flywheel from coming out.

Only way to remove it is get underneath and pull the bolts. On the V8 setup, once you dropped the flywheel guard on the bottom there were 2 bolts into the bottom of the bellhousing and 2 bolts into the face of the bellhousing holding that plate up there. Hope this helps if the 8 and 6 are similar.

[71tahoe]

A manual transmission starter bolts to the bellhousing. Since you didn't mention removing that, it could be what's binding on the lower end.

[Hisroth]

Originally Posted by JimKshortstep4x4

Welcome to the 67-72 Chevrolet Truck Board from West Michigan!

If you have a stick shift, is the clutch Z-bar out of the way?

Jim

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

Yes, I've pulled out all the pins and removed it completely.

Also, I did take off the starter, and the little shim plate that runs across the bottom of the transmission that was behind the starter.

I believe it's the clutch itself that's holding it together. The gap I was talking about I guess is between the bell housing and the rear of the block. From the top I can easily see the clutch and flywheel through the gap. From the bottom I can only see what looks like a shaft about the size of my arm connecting the two at the bottom, but they are separated, just won't completely come apart.

Shifter is taken out, drive shaft is off, all crossmember bolts are out.

Is it possible that it's just the clutch binding up and holding them together?

Thats for all the replies everyone. Gave me a lot of stuff to check and double check.

[71tahoe]

Try supporting the back of the transmission. Sounds like the input shaft/clutch may be in a bind.

[raycow]

Unbolt the transmission from the bellhousing and pull it out. Then pull the bellhousing out with the engine. It will be much easier to get them apart once you get the engine out of the truck.

Ray

[swamp rat]

>>>>>I can get an inch gap at the top and a half inch at the bottom<<<<<<

This tells me your binding up and not pulling the two straight apart.

I'm with raycow on his suggestion.

[Tynee]

When you get to the point that you're ready to start re-installing that '93, let me know. I've learned some interesting things running a carburated '93 350 in my '70.

[Hisroth]

My wife and I had another baby... so this project got put on the side for the last 4 1/2 months.

However, I have good news to report. It finally came apart, and when I figured out the problem, I've never felt so stupid.... It was good that I took the break, gave me some time to forget what I had/hadn't done and got a fresh look at it all.

It was the flywheel inspection cover, it hooked on the bottom 2 inches of the flywheel, thats all that was holding it together... simple 2 bolts fixed the problem. But when the motor was coming forward, the flywheel hit that cover, and lifted the transmission up and forward with it, and since nothing was connected to the frame, the tension there was enough to keep it all swinging around together.

Since then the project has picked up the pace.

I got my 700R4 hooked up to the back of the Vortec 350 now, and using the original motor mounts, will have no problem with insertion outside of the crossmember for the transmission. The 700R4 i bought came with it's original crossmember, but the original in the truck I'm working on is rivited in. The only point of contact seems to be a small cylinder piece with a single bolt downward through the crossmember, so I'm thinking I can just drill a hole and move the cylinder mount piece and modify the old crossmember to work fine since it's all rivited in already?

And now I'm ready for all those hints and tips about making the 96 Vortec 350 from TBI to Carb. I've already got it all built and modded, just needs a fuel pump hooked onto it and the water pump pulley shimmed out a bit since I switched back to V channel pulleys because I hate serpentine.

This has very much been a "learn on the go" experience as my first motor swap and real mechanical work of anykind other than the basic vehicle maint. I've done brakes, etc... but this is way more fun than I ever thought it would be and can't wait to teach my two boys ( 2 and 4 1/2 months) how to work on this truck with they are older and teach them what working on something for yourself feels like.

[Autoblueprint]

Check this out...6 cylinder engine removal :

http://www.autoblueprint.com/1961_pa...e_removal.html

Hope this helps.

[BIGKEV]

Originally Posted by Hisroth

My wife and I had another baby... so this project got put on the side for the last 4 1/2 months.

However, I have good news to report. It finally came apart, and when I figured out the problem, I've never felt so stupid.... It was good that I took the break, gave me some time to forget what I had/hadn't done and got a fresh look at it all.

It was the flywheel inspection cover, it hooked on the bottom 2 inches of the flywheel, thats all that was holding it together... simple 2 bolts fixed the problem. But when the motor was coming forward, the flywheel hit that cover, and lifted the transmission up and forward with it, and since nothing was connected to the frame, the tension there was enough to keep it all swinging around together.

Since then the project has picked up the pace.

I got my 700R4 hooked up to the back of the Vortec 350 now, and using the original motor mounts, will have no problem with insertion outside of the crossmember for the transmission. The 700R4 i bought came with it's original crossmember, but the original in the truck I'm working on is rivited in. The only point of contact seems to be a small cylinder piece with a single bolt downward through the crossmember, so I'm thinking I can just drill a hole and move the cylinder mount piece and modify the old crossmember to work fine since it's all rivited in already?

And now I'm ready for all those hints and tips about making the 96 Vortec 350 from TBI to Carb. I've already got it all built and modded, just needs a fuel pump hooked onto it and the water pump pulley shimmed out a bit since I switched back to V channel pulleys because I hate serpentine.

This has very much been a "learn on the go" experience as my first motor swap and real mechanical work of anykind other than the basic vehicle maint. I've done brakes, etc... but this is way more fun than I ever thought it would be and can't wait to teach my two boys ( 2 and 4 1/2 months) how to work on this truck with they are older and teach them what working on something for yourself feels like.

Did you get another engine? If it is a 93 TBI, it is not a vortec. Also depending on what part of the year the burb was manufactured, your 700r4 (4l60) may be a 4l60e and require a computer to function. Also why ditch the TBI?

[Hisroth]

Originally Posted by BIGKEV

Did you get another engine? If it is a 93 TBI, it is not a vortec. Also depending on what part of the year the burb was manufactured, your 700r4 (4l60) may be a 4l60e and require a computer to function. Also why ditch the TBI?

Yes, I did. I gave the 93 to my brother in law for one of his projects, and bought the Vortec from the same guy I got the 93 from.

The 700R4 is from an 86 Cheyenne I believe... we basically traded the 93 - 350 for the 700r4. I also had a 4l60e when I was originally going to get a donor truck and be able to pull the whole computer to go with the motor etc... That deal fell through, and the Vortec I bought didn't come with the computer components necessary to make the TBI work. And being this is my first real build situation, I went with what I thought would be simplist, Carb. I kept all the original intake, connectors, etc... so that someday I could put it back to TBI if I wanted, but I think I like the old school style of the carb more since thats what the 71 originally had. Otherwise, i would have gone with an LT1 or an LS3 or something like that I think and still might in the future, but for now... carb is what I can do to get it mobile, useful, and then upgrade over the years.

[Tynee]

Congrats on the new baby.

The first thing I would do is take a close look at the engine, if it has a cover over the mounting boss for the mechanical fuel pump, pull it and see if there is a hole drilled. If there is a hole drilled, slide some thing all the way in that hole and then turn the crank by hand, either at the flywheel or the balancer, and see if the camshaft has the fuel pump eccentric on it or not. It is a long shot with the vortec, but none of this costs you any money to do, and if you can still run the mechanical pump, you'll be way ahead over time to stay with that setup. Ask me how I know.

Also, you probably already know this, but you can buy an intake manifold from edelbrock intended for bolting a carb to your vortec heads.

[Hisroth]

Originally Posted by Tynee

Congrats on the new baby.

The first thing I would do is take a close look at the engine, if it has a cover over the mounting boss for the mechanical fuel pump, pull it and see if there is a hole drilled. If there is a hole drilled, slide some thing all the way in that hole and then turn the crank by hand, either at the flywheel or the balancer, and see if the camshaft has the fuel pump eccentric on it or not. It is a long shot with the vortec, but none of this costs you any money to do, and if you can still run the mechanical pump, you'll be way ahead over time to stay with that setup. Ask me how I know.

Also, you probably already know this, but you can buy an intake manifold from edelbrock intended for bolting a carb to your vortec heads.

I'm not sure what most of that first part means, but I'm going to look it up and then check that like you're saying.

I had originally bought an Edelbrock intake, before I found out the inside bolts are at 29 degrees instead of 45, but I traded it to a local engine builder for a Power Plus intake with the adapter inserts, the "learning process" as I said, ha.

[ls1nova71]

Originally Posted by Hisroth

and the water pump pulley shimmed out a bit since I switched back to V channel pulleys because I hate serpentine.

You're going to need to do more than just shim the water pump pulley out, you'll need another water pump. Serpentine style water pumps spin the opposite direction of a v-belt water pump.

[OJ1988]

If the intake bolts are all the same except for the center, it's not a vortec. Vortec heads have all the intake bolts vertical, they go straight up and down.

Glad to read you got it out and are making progress!
Now you got to build another truck too.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Hisroth]

Originally Posted by ls1nova71

You're going to need to do more than just shim the water pump pulley out, you'll need another water pump. Serpentine style water pumps spin the opposite direction of a v-belt water pump.

Oh great.... Well... at least thats a semi-fast replacement since the motor is still out.

[BIGKEV]

If it's a true vortec it will be an 880 block. How many miles are on the engine? I have had some problems with 80k plus having core shift, and milked cam bearings. Don't get me wrong hear, I'm a fan of the vortec platform, just a couple of things to look for. I bought a complete vortec long block for my 71, and only ended up using the heads. Most will be fine, but I've had my hands on 3 or 4 that had the afore mentioned problems.

[Hisroth]

Originally Posted by OJ1988

If the intake bolts are all the same except for the center, it's not a vortec. Vortec heads have all the intake bolts vertical, they go straight up and down.
Posted via Mobile Device

You are correct... I have no idea where I got this in my head... I've been dealing with too many motors/transmissions/opinions to keep them all straight.... pfew....

And the serpentine goes counter-clockwise and the V goes clockwise as far as the water pump right? Or do I have that backwards?

For ease, i'm checking with Carquest on a 1975 suburban LWP, figure that had to be V belt and the correct rotation as long as it all lines up.

[Hisroth]

I'm digging out my old thread again. Some updates have taken place.

I'm finally wired, have the starter, fuel pump, etc... all in. The only 4 things I have left to do are the manual choke, throttle cable, shiftdown cable, and put the shifter on the floor for the transmission.

I'm not worried about these really for the purpose of this current problem, because I can reach through the floor and make sure the truck is in park, the choke is wide open, and shiftdown cable doesn't matter since I'm not moving, and I've got wires running through the firewall connecting to the carb that I'm using as throttle/choke just to get it running since I'm a 1-man show and don't have a second person to try to get it started with me.

But it's probably a good thing because I would have burned their face off today trying. I set the motor to zero, took off the distributor cap to check the rotor, and then setup the plug wires as they should be I believe. I had a mechanic look at it the other day after I did it and he said I had the right order and placement according to the rotor, etc... But I cannot get the truck to start, it just blows fire out the top of the carb from time to time. I'm guessing it's that my timing is off and I need to turn the distributor a bit? I saw in another thread that bad gas could also be to blame and it's been over a year since I put this gas into the truck before I did the engine pull.

The only thing I can think of since I'm usually by myself is just to turn the distributor a bit and try again, and again, till hopefully it stops shooting flames? I have a junk hood so I don't care much about the flames and the paint yet. But how far should I be turning it, two to three degrees at a time?

[Tynee]

For 10 bucks or so, you can buy a remote starter switch. Connect it to the starter as the instructions in the package show, then you can be your own assistant. You can stand under the hood and pull the starter switch, then turn the distributor until the engine fires.

BUT I think you need to do some more reading on this. The rotor may be pointing at the #1 cylinder, and the #1 cylinder may be at Top-Dead-Center, and your mechanic may have verified all of this, but did he check to see if you were at TDC on the compression stroke? If #1 piston is at TDC of the exhaust stroke, you have your distributor installed 180* from where it needs to be, and you won't be able to turn it far enough to get it running properly.

IF you are 180* out, the only thing you can do is pull the distributor back out, turn the engine over, either with the starter, or with a ratchet on the crank, until you are at 180* on the compression stroke. You can buy a piston stop to find TDC, or you can place your finger over the spark plug hole (with the plug out), and wait until the compression pushes your finger out. That will get you close.

[Hisroth]

Yeah, thats what I was trying to understand too, how it could cycle twice during each rotation so that zero was always at the power cycle, but I guess I didn't get my point across to the guy who was working on it with me.

I will look for a remote starter this week, but I think you're right and it's probably 180 degrees off, seems like it should be at least trying to fire but all it's doing is blowing fire out the top about every full crank.

I just wish there was an easier way of checking besides pulling out the distributor again because it's an HEI and there isn't a ton of space by the firewall to pull all the plugs and reinstall it for the third time, ha.

Thanks for the tip.

[Hisroth]

This might be cheating, but I thought it would be easier than pulling the distributor all over again. I took Plug 1 and stuck it where plug 6 was, and then went around in order again from one. Technically doing a 180 with the distributor, but with only changing the plug wires. Happy to report it roars for the first time in nearly a year! Took some time to get the throttle cable hooked up, built a throttle cable bracket out of an old O2 sensor bracket, manual choke, etc...

Now I'm a floor shifter install, and a spring or something on the carb to get it to return to idle once you let up on the gas pedal, and I'm ready to back it out of the garage to time it.

Then comes the years of body work, lol.