VIN Question

[Tomahawk30]

I think I've already made my decision on this, but I want to make sure I'm not just being overly cautious. I'm looking at buying a 72 Cheyenne Super k10 swb from out of state. They had a local state police officer perform a vin inspection on the truck for me, which he approved. However, the id plate on the door frame is apparently not there, and he approved it based on matching the title to the SPID sticker in the glove box. My local DMV assures me that they would have no problem issuing an Oregon title for the vehicle based on his inspection, but for me this raises a huge red flag. Short of the owner (who is ten hours away) verifying that the partial vin on the frame matches up with the title and SPID, there's no way to know if anything outside of the glove box door matches up with the title. As truck owners / buyers, would this essentially discredit everything about the truck down the road? At the least I would think that I'd never be comfortable selling it to an out of state buyer as the next inspector may or may not be as accommodating in accepting the SPID as proof of the VIN for an out of state title transfer. I'm leaning strongly toward just walking away, but wanted to get a little reassurance that I'm correct in my assumptions here. Any input you all have would be greatly appreciated....

Jake

[Tomahawk30]

If the partial VIN on the frame matched the SPID and the title, would that be enough to satisfy you if you were a buyer? Anyone know if the DMV will issue a replacement tag for that VIN number?

[71swb4x4]

In most states if the DMV issues a new tag it is their new VIN number too.

Can you find someone on this board to go check it out for you? I find that a lot of the people on here are great, and it would sure make me feel better to have another truck lover check it out before buying it.

At the end of the day though, the missing VIN tag will seriously affect price. It would need to be a deal for me to take the chance and buy it.

[partsman3]

The manufacture would be the one you would get a replacement vin tag from. I'm the parts manager at a BMW dealer. To get one from me, You'd have to bring the vehicle to me to inspect, take photos of existing tags/stampings and then submit the request. Due to the age, don't know if GM would even do it.

The one on my 67 C10 was damaged during sandblasting. Not sure what I will do to correct it yet.

I just thought of this, I have a sister store that is GM. I will contact them and see what if anything they can do and let you know.

[Tomahawk30]

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

In most states if the DMV issues a new tag it is their new VIN number too.

Can you find someone on this board to go check it out for you? I find that a lot of the people on here are great, and it would sure make me feel better to have another truck lover check it out before buying it.

At the end of the day though, the missing VIN tag will seriously affect price. It would need to be a deal for me to take the chance and buy it.

Thanks for the feedback... I'm not worried about having the vin checked by another truck guy. I won't even consider buying it unless he provides me new pics of the partial vin on the frame at this point. But if it is always going to call into question the legitimacy of the vehicle, it probably isn't worth taking the chance unless he wants to sell it for a price that I'd be willing to pay for a run of the mill swb 4x4.

[Tomahawk30]

Originally Posted by partsman3

I just thought of this, I have a sister store that is GM. I will contact them and see what if anything they can do and let you know.

That would be great if you could find that out... I might try calling a dealer that is local (within 100 miles) of us as well.

[Longhorn Man]

I am amazed that a state police officer looked and said it was OK.
That truck is not legal without the correct VIN plate still rivited to the truck with original rivits.
I would walk away.
If your DMV wanted to look at it, they could have it impounded on the spot.

[stomper]

What's your 'Red Flag' about the truck you're looking at? Afraid it won't pass out of state inspection? I agree the officer is wrong to be satisfied with the glove box VIN. You're buying a whole truck not the glove box door.

I'd be comfortable with a VIN on SPID label and partial frame VIN if it was worth the price in parts.

If it's a chunk of $ they're asking I'd research other locations for VIN's. I'm not aware of any 'hidden' VIN's on the cab or elsewhere but I'm sure others will chime in if so. If there aren't any, the State Patrol couldn't say it was or wasn't the original cab and you're good to go.

I looked at a '72 short box near Sisters, OR this spring. The factory VIN tag on the door jam was missing. It had an OR title that matched the frame and the Washington State issued VIN tag on the door jam. The SPID VIN was different but the options all matched up to what I was looking at.

I was confident I wouldn't have a problem registering it and that it wasn't stolen but the inconsistency in the SPID/VIN and replacement tag indicated that it had been apart at one time and the cab probably replaced. I looked closer and saw lots of bad body work. It's price reflected an original truck in better shape so I passed. The seller was just sort of clueless about the whole thing.

[Vintage Windmills]

How do you even photograph the vin on the frame with the cab in place? Its on the topside of the frame rail under the cab. I wouldn't be concerned with the fact the plate is gone but I would assume the cab has been replaced. Why else wouldn't it be there? Some states don't even inspect the vehicle at all when its registered in from out of state.

[Tomahawk30]

I just spoke with the owner again about the truck and explained my concerns. He's going to try to locate the partial VIN on the frame if possible. If he can provide that, AND I can get a reissued GM vin tag, I may still consider it. He certainly isn't asking a premium for the truck. In fact, its probably a reasonable price for any swb 4x4 if the vin tag was in place. The owner and his father have owned it for 10 years (about 4000 miles in that time), and he knew the previous owner who did the upgrades. In talking to him, the guy had a parts vehicle that I'm guessing donated a cab. If he never had to have it inspected, nobody would have ever been the wiser as it never left the state. Think I'm going to have to walk away from this one....

[BureauMan]

In North Carolina the frame number is the most important number. If the truck was going to be titled here, the State would issue a state assigned VIN, if the public VIN was missng. As long as the title matched the frame your good to go and would be able to get a title.

[Tomahawk30]

Originally Posted by BureauMan

In North Carolina the frame number is the most important number. If the truck was going to be titled here, the State would issue a state assigned VIN, if the public VIN was missng. As long as the title matched the frame your good to go and would be able to get a title.

I have no doubt that I could title it here in Oregon just based on the paperwork provided by the Wyoming State Police. My local DMV said that based on that they wouldn't even need to look at the vehicle. But I'm just not willing to make the trip to buy it without it at least having the correct year cab. To the kids defense, he wasn't listing it as a Cheyenne Super, even though the matching VIN number on the SPID and title indicate that it once was. He inherited it when his father passed a year ago, and I don't get the impression that he knows a lot about these trucks. Cool truck either way, but just not one I'm willing to take on as is.

[BLAZERMAN]

It wouldnt pass an inspection in Missouri without that VIN tag...probably end up confiscated. Going by the pics you had earlier it had pre 72 doors on it so it may have had a cab swap..since the kid that owns it knows the previous owner and builder maybe a call to him may jog his memory as to where that VIN tag could be....could be in a drawer or still on the original cab lurking behind a barn somewhere!

[dmack91]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk30

I have no doubt that I could title it here in Oregon just based on the paperwork provided by the Wyoming State Police. My local DMV said that based on that they wouldn't even need to look at the vehicle. But I'm just not willing to make the trip to buy it without it at least having the correct year cab. To the kids defense, he wasn't listing it as a Cheyenne Super, even though the matching VIN number on the SPID and title indicate that it once was. He inherited it when his father passed a year ago, and I don't get the impression that he knows a lot about these trucks. Cool truck either way, but just not one I'm willing to take on as is.

Interesting - last I checked Oregon required a VIN inspection on any vehicle being titled from out of state. DMV can do it (if you can get them to even walk outside), but most often, the state police will do the inspection.

State law also allows the police to seize a vehicle that is missing a public vin plate. Wouldn't that be fun!

[Longhorn Man]

A missing VIN plate is illegal regardless of why it is missing, or what state you are in. A partial vin on the frame doesn't cut it, and a paper sticker in the glove box doesn't either. The only one that counts as a legal identification of the vehicle is the one that is missing.
Even if you slip through the cracks and get it titled in your state, it is still a felony to drive that on the dtreet.
What you have, is an off road only vehicle, or a parts truck.
You posted the question becouse your gut is telling you to run, but your brain WANTS this truck. Follow your gut.

[71c10bbsuper]

I know some history on this truck ,this truck has had a lot of work over the years,this truck has always sat crooked like the frame was bent they tried to shim the bad and cab but would never be straight.thay brought a frame to my work to get sandblasted, our comyany never did blast the frame and after a few months the frame was gone.so i don't know if they ever got the frame swap done .the truck now sits square so this may be a different frame.
if you want to pm me i can give you a call and tell you more
bruce

[Tomahawk30]

Originally Posted by 71c10bbsuper

I know some history on this truck ,this truck has had a lot of work over the years,this truck has always sat crooked like the frame was bent they tried to shim the bad and cab but would never be straight.thay brought a frame to my work to get sandblasted, our comyany never did blast the frame and after a few months the frame was gone.so i don't know if they ever got the frame swap done .the truck now sits square so this may be a different frame.
if you want to pm me i can give you a call and tell you more
bruce

Thanks for the extra insight. I've already pulled the plug on the deal and walked away, so I'm not too worried about it at this point. Like I said, my DMV said they wouldn't require another inspection, but he was lucky to have it pass once. It would drive me crazy every time I drove the thing if it was me. Like Longhorn said, I wanted it, but my gut told me to walk away. Everything that I've found since making the decision to look deeper has reinforced my gut feeling. I'm definitely glad that I frequent this site though. I know I can always count on good advice from people that know what the hell they are looking for. Once again, the small cost of being a member has been returned tenfold....

[Longhorn Man]

I'll do stupid things like telling the boss he's being an ass... but I won't buy a vehicle that the state might take away from me. Parts truck only, and even then I would hesitate.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

How do you even photograph the vin on the frame with the cab in place? Its on the topside of the frame rail under the cab. I wouldn't be concerned with the fact the plate is gone but I would assume the cab has been replaced. Why else wouldn't it be there? Some states don't even inspect the vehicle at all when its registered in from out of state.

You are smart to avoid this truck. Too many questionable issues with it and the legality of the truck as it sits.

Info for other people who might be trying to verify a frame matches the cab and title: I know both my 69's and the 67 have two partial VIN numbers on the frame. I would bet all 67-72's have them.

One under the cab and one exposed in the engine compartment just in front of the motor mount bracket. The one in the engine compartment is usually covered with grease and paint so it is hard to see.

[BureauMan]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

A missing VIN plate is illegal regardless of why it is missing, or what state you are in. A partial vin on the frame doesn't cut it, and a paper sticker in the glove box doesn't either. The only one that counts as a legal identification of the vehicle is the one that is missing.
Even if you slip through the cracks and get it titled in your state, it is still a felony to drive that on the dtreet.
What you have, is an off road only vehicle, or a parts truck.
You posted the question becouse your gut is telling you to run, but your brain WANTS this truck. Follow your gut.

you are right on spot that it is illegal to not have a public VIN, but I think most states have some form of state assigned VIN that they can put on vehicles that are missing the VIN as long as the truck is not stolen. It is still taking a chance buy something does not have a VIN..