Help with roll cage.

[bcdeutsch731]

I'm looking into racing in the NHRDA super street class next year and have some questions about the roll cage. I'm looking to go anywhere between 9.1 to 9.9 in the 1/4 mile and still drive my truck on the street. I want to put a cage in it and have talked to 3 different chassis shops around me and none of them know the rules as far as whats allowed. My engine bay is full and I cant run the bars out the firewall but all three shops said I didn't need too, is that true? I still have the factory firewall and floor in the truck and wanted to know if I could get away with mounting the cage to the floor using a plate on both sides of the floor and using bolts to secure it? The bottom plate would be mounted to the frame some way. The reason I want to do it this way is because I need to take the cab off the truck to get the engine out. As far as the rear bars I was hopping to do something like the picture I made up. The bars mounting to the rear hoop in the bed would be removable. I would have them come out the rear sliding window. I was going to use camburg billet clamps on the removable bars. Any help here would be great. I'm also looking for a good shop to do the cage. I don't mind traveling a little to have a good job done and it will need to be certified down to 9.0 seconds.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by bcdeutsch731

I'm looking into racing in the NHRDA super street class next year and have some questions about the roll cage. I'm looking to go anywhere between 9.1 to 9.9 in the 1/4 mile and still drive my truck on the street. I want to put a cage in it and have talked to 3 different chassis shops around me and none of them know the rules as far as whats allowed. My engine bay is full and I cant run the bars out the firewall but all three shops said I didn't need too, is that true? I still have the factory firewall and floor in the truck and wanted to know if I could get away with mounting the cage to the floor using a plate on both sides of the floor and using bolts to secure it? The bottom plate would be mounted to the frame some way. The reason I want to do it this way is because I need to take the cab off the truck to get the engine out. As far as the rear bars I was hopping to do something like the picture I made up. The bars mounting to the rear hoop in the bed would be removable. I would have them come out the rear sliding window. I was going to use camburg billet clamps on the removable bars. Any help here would be great. I'm also looking for a good shop to do the cage. I don't mind traveling a little to have a good job done and it will need to be certified down to 9.0 seconds.

If you are planning to go quicker than 10.00 et (or attain a 8.50 et chassis sticker), I would highly recommend investing in a NHRA rulebook. To date, no bolt-in cages are permitted. Yes, you don't necessarily need the forward bars, but it depends on the cage configuration you decide upon. If you go with a main hoop configuration, the main hoop has to be inside the cab.

[Marv D]

Wow that is an agressive goal. 9.3 in a 2800 pound chassis takes 800HP,,

9.1 in a traction challanged, nearly 4000 pounds, through mufflers in street trim....., you better be looking at a motor capable of well over 1000, maybe closer to 1200

What are you building?

ANd Vin is the man. Your first chassis cert under 10.00 is the 8.50, You WILL have the cage built from the correct NHRA spec material, to fit the driver, with the body, helmet, and shoulder clearances called out in the rule book, or you won't get the certification. Your post says "NHRDA:" and I would assume your meaning NHRA but it doesn't matter. If you run on a NHRA track, you follow their tech. Lots of tracks are going IHRA and the rules are 'slightly' different, but the cages, chassis certs, and cagte rules are pretty much interchangable (with NHRA always being more striengent).

As suggested, join NHRA, get a rule book, and get ready to get 'intimate' with SFI (that's a nice way of saying they are going to **** in your *** till it bleeds silver dollars)

You want a list of tech items it takes for a sub 9 second pass... Vehicle or driver? Two very expensive lists.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Wow that is an agressive goal. 9.3 in a 2800 pound chassis takes 800HP,,

9.1 in a traction challanged, nearly 4000 pounds, through mufflers in street trim....., you better be looking at a motor capable of well over 1000, maybe closer to 1200

What are you building?

ANd Vin is the man. Your first chassis cert under 10.00 is the 8.50, You WILL have the cage built from the correct NHRA spec material, to fit the driver, with the body, helmet, and shoulder clearances called out in the rule book, or you won't get the certification. Your post says "NHRDA:" and I would assume your meaning NHRA but it doesn't matter. If you run on a NHRA track, you follow their tech. Lots of tracks are going IHRA and the rules are 'slightly' different, but the cages, chassis certs, and cagte rules are pretty much interchangable (with NHRA always being more striengent).

As suggested, join NHRA, get a rule book, and get ready to get 'intimate' with SFI (that's a nice way of saying they are going to **** in your *** till it bleeds silver dollars)

You want a list of tech items it takes for a sub 9 second pass... Vehicle or driver? Two very expensive lists.

Well spoken, sir. I've gone 9.85 at 3950, but am hesitant to make the jump and run consistently below 10 flat for those very reasons. I'm pretty happy sticking around 10.10 - 10.20 and having a bit more freedom.

Bcd -

I see you are in the Chicago area. You might check in with the boys at Fast Times motorworks (Chuck Samuel, Joe D'Agostino). They have been competing in NHRA/NMCA "street legal" style drag racing for some time and are on top of their game. They might be able to give you some pointers or help out in some way. (Chuck got famous by running a mid 9 second El Camino).

K

[vin63]

For fabrication help and a great working knowledge of building cars for drag racing, my friend, Pat Powers (PMP Fabrications) of Oak Lawn is one of the best fabricators in the Chicago area. And, he's a principle member of the Midwest Super Stock Mafia.

His email address is: ppowers1@sbcglobal.net

[bcdeutsch731]

Thanks for all the help guys. I will be getting in contact with some more shops to see who does the best work at a reasonable price. So far I have talked to 3 shops and one said $4000 and the other said $2000. The other guy would not give me a price.
NHRDA stands for National Hot Rod Diesel Association
The truck in my sig is the truck I will be racing.

NHRDA Super-Street
» Heads-Up class with a 4/10ths Pro Tree, Laddered by ET, Auto Start on
» 2wd Minimum weight: 5000 lbs (w/ Driver) �1%, slick tires permitted
» 4wd Minimum weight: 6000 lbs (w/ Driver) �1%, DOT approved tires required
» Tube chassis, back halved, 4-link, 3-link style rear suspension prohibited
(Traction/Ladder Bars allowed)
» Hood Stacks prohibited
» Must have OEM Style transmission (Lenco, Liberty, Bruno, Clutchflite, Danco,
or similar prohibited )
» Engine must be forward of OEM Firewall
» Fuel Tank must be in stock location.
» Battery(s) must be forward of OEM Firewall
» Must meet NHRA tech and safety requirements for MPH and ET
» Must meet NHRA and/or IHRA licensing requirements for MPH and ET

Last year my truck made 768hp 1305ftlbs at the rear wheels. I ran a 10.6@126mph. That was with a stock long block Duramax. This winter I'm building a new motor with forged parts and bigger turbo's. I'm hopping to make 1300Hp and 1700-1800ftlbs.

[bcdeutsch731]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Wow that is an agressive goal. 9.3 in a 2800 pound chassis takes 800HP,,

9.1 in a traction challanged, nearly 4000 pounds, through mufflers in street trim....., you better be looking at a motor capable of well over 1000, maybe closer to 1200

What are you building?

ANd Vin is the man. Your first chassis cert under 10.00 is the 8.50, You WILL have the cage built from the correct NHRA spec material, to fit the driver, with the body, helmet, and shoulder clearances called out in the rule book, or you won't get the certification. Your post says "NHRDA:" and I would assume your meaning NHRA but it doesn't matter. If you run on a NHRA track, you follow their tech. Lots of tracks are going IHRA and the rules are 'slightly' different, but the cages, chassis certs, and cagte rules are pretty much interchangable (with NHRA always being more striengent).

As suggested, join NHRA, get a rule book, and get ready to get 'intimate' with SFI (that's a nice way of saying they are going to **** in your *** till it bleeds silver dollars)

You want a list of tech items it takes for a sub 9 second pass... Vehicle or driver? Two very expensive lists.

If you have some sort of list that would be great. So far I have
Steel valve stems
Trans blanket
Locking eng and trans dip sticks
Neck brace
Fire suit and shoes
Helmet

[vin63]

Originally Posted by bcdeutsch731

If you have some sort of list that would be great. So far I have
Steel valve stems
Trans blanket
Locking eng and trans dip sticks
Neck brace
Fire suit and shoes
Helmet

The two lists are very extensive...don't speculate - it can quickly cost twice as much if you guess, or only go by what others post. Here's the link to order the rulebook, and be sure to talk with your local track tech inspectors and establish a relationship (and keep in mind that there are variances from track to track, some being stricter than others, or enforce higher levels of the rules instead of the NHRA minimum).

http://store.nhra.com/products/nhra-2012-rulebook/

[bcdeutsch731]

Thanks vin63. I just got off the phone with Pat, I'm going to go over to his house and take a look at his work.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by bcdeutsch731

Thanks vin63. I just got off the phone with Pat, I'm going to go over to his house and take a look at his work.

No problem...glad I could help. Pat builds some bad ass cars that run in the 7s in stock looking configurations. Here is whom you'll need to be in contact with for the chassis certification:

Ted Peters, NHRA Division 3 Tech Inspector - Chicago Land
(708) 333-9289
kb572mopar@yahoo.com

[bcdeutsch731]

Originally Posted by vin63

No problem...glad I could help. Pat builds some bad ass cars that run in the 7s in stock looking configurations. Here is whom you'll need to be in contact with for the chassis certification:

Ted Peters, NHRA Division 3 Tech Inspector - Chicago Land
(708) 333-9289
kb572mopar@yahoo.com

Thanks for all the help. I just ordered the rule book, all I need to do now is figure out what all of it means.

[vin63]

Here is one of the cars Pat built that recently received some coverage...

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/fe...a/viewall.html

[Marv D]

First, I'll appologize for my stupidity here, I totally missed the fact that this is diesel

I'll sit down with the rule book and get a total list for bet it all , but a few things that are going to be 'interesting' will be the SFI balancer, SFI flexplate, SFI flexplate shield, or a SFI approved bell housing, SFI approved trans case, or SFI trans shield.
I dont imagine there are enough sub-ten second duramax / Allison that it is going to be as simple as picking up the phone and ordering the SFI stuff from slummit.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by Marv D

First, I'll appologize for my stupidity here, I totally missed the fact that this is diesel

I'll sit down with the rule book and get a total list for bet it all , but a few things that are going to be 'interesting' will be the SFI balancer, SFI flexplate, SFI flexplate shield, or a SFI approved bell housing, SFI approved trans case, or SFI trans shield.
I dont imagine there are enough sub-ten second duramax / Allison that it is going to be as simple as picking up the phone and ordering the SFI stuff from slummit.

There are actually more than you might think. My buddy David Basham, who built all of the record setting engines for Gale Banks also built the Duramax that was running mid 7s with the twin turbo Duramax S-10 several years ago, and there are several more running 9s that he and others have built.

[bcdeutsch731]

As of right now there are 15 sub 10sec duramax's that I know of. Yes, it is a pain in the azz to find the safety stuff and when you do find it you have to pay an arm and a leg for it. My new motor will have a SFI balancer and flex plate on it. I found a company that sells the SFI trans blanket but they are about $500, so I'm going to see if I can find a universal one that may fit. The only problem is the allison is so big.

Thanks for your time Marv D.

The record for the super street class was set this year with a 9.34@148mph. The truck was 4x4 and weighed 6006Lbs. I don't think I will have the money to go that fast but to be competitive you need to run a 9.8 or faster. I think if I spend a little time getting the suspension dialed in I could run with these guys. Last year I ran a best of 10.69@126 with a 1.49 60ft. That was with 768hp. With my new motor I'm looking to make between 1100-1300hp.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by bcdeutsch731

...Yes, it is a pain in the azz to find the safety stuff and when you do find it you have to pay an arm and a leg for it. My new motor will have a SFI balancer and flex plate on it. I found a company that sells the SFI trans blanket but they are about $500, so I'm going to see if I can find a universal one that may fit. The only problem is the allison is so big...

Let me know if you can't find one...I'm a rep for DJ Safety and Allison 1000-specific transmission blankets with the SFI 4-1/4-2 rating are available (I've sold a few...a lot less than $500), as well as all of the other driver safety equipment needed. Let me know if I can help in that department.

[bcdeutsch731]

Sounds good, when the time comes I will get in touch with you. Do you know if the trans blanket has a expiration date on them?
Thanks for all the help.

[vin63]

Originally Posted by bcdeutsch731

Sounds good, when the time comes I will get in touch with you. Do you know if the trans blanket has a expiration date on them?
Thanks for all the help.

You'll need a SFI 4.1 blanket, and it will need to be recertified every 2 years.