Different Frame widths?

[jnocero]

I called Flaming River because I wanted to find out more about their bolt-in rack and pinion kit. It is only available for 73-87, because they said the front frame width changed in 73. This is most likely not true. The frame may have changed in height, but not width.

I was also told they bolt their cradle to the inside of the frame rails, and you have to box the frame to get it to work. They said the width of their rack bracket is 28-3/8". I measured my 68 and 72, and it measures that to the outside of the frame, so that could also be wrong.

The width of their rack is 46-7/8" tip to tip, and that is without tie rod ends (you supply them).

They sell the rack, bracket, column, wheel, and pump for $3000, They will sell the rack and bracket alone for $2830.

In fairness, they are not selling this for a 67-72, just the 73-up. I was interested in trying to make something like it work on a 68-72, and see if anyone had bought one, but it looks like nobody has. I just wanted to post what I had found out about this, in case anyone wants to try it.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jnocero

I called Flaming River because I wanted to find out more about their bolt-in rack and pinion kit. It is only available for 73-87, because they said the front frame width changed in 73. Anybody know if the frame got wider or narrower? Did the crossmember change a lot too?

They bolt their cradle to the inside of the frame rails, so you have to box the frame to get it to work. They also won't sell the R&P alone without the column and pump, so that makes it $3k. Too much for me. There has got to be a way to do this with a used rack and some steel strap.

The front c.members will swap from later to earlier (I installed a 75 c.member into my 68's frame @ one point) so I don't see why their 'kit' wouldn't work. They prob haven't tried a retro-fit install & have no intention of as a way to limit their liabilty.

That being said..... I've heard more than one guy mention using a 'used' R&P to save money. Why would anyone use a used R&P set-up vs. buying a new/rebuilt unit? I've noticed the prices on the Flaming River 'kits' are 'blue-collar' prohibitive, but a Summit or LAPS R&P isn't when building your own 'kit'.

[jnocero]

You're right. R&Ps aren't that expensive. Just be nice to know what to ask for, like a large frame late model sedan that has enough width to get the rack pivots outside the frame and even with the LCA pivots shafts, and tie rods long enough to make it out to the spindlles.

[SCOTI]

That pic looks like they possibly utilize the OE steering box & idler arm mounting holes on the outside of the rail?? I've seen their ad's but haven't really investigated them further simply because of the investment return.

For 3K, you can get a Dropmember, new R&P, new steering column, & prob still have some change leftover plus the ability to lay your truck on the ground (or an additional 3" of ground clearance) vs. that kit.

[PBFAB.COM]

There is a frame "height" difference between the 63-72 chassis and the 73-87 chassis. Frame width is the same on every one that I measured.

[jnocero]

I took a look at a 91 chevy 2wd front rack and pinion today, with a 4.3 V6. They have a smaller crossmember under the engine that doesn't carry the engine mounts (they mount right onto the frame).
The rack is bolted to a crossmember in front of the engine that is in about the same place as the front crossmember on my 67. I am going to get some measurements when I can. Does anybody know any good technical articles on what causes bump steer?
The steering column on the 91 has two universal joints under the dash to get the shaft through the firewall to the right of the master cylinder, then two more to get it inside the frame to catch the rack.
Looks like a hot rod setup.
Should be easy enough to find a 91 rack to start playing with.

[m6z]

Assumeing the Flamming River kit works as intended. Couldn't one of the board sponsers make somthing similar at a much lower price point? I would think this would be a hot item if you could use your stock column and lower the price quite a bit.

[M5-]

Jim Meyers sells this complete front end for I think $3200.00 rack and all.

M5

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/pu6.html

[decodan]

Hey,

My BIG question and problem with most every after market IFS is they are too narrow. Even the one above says it is 2" narrower. I once put a complete new IFS under my 1954 Chevy Sedan Delivery, it was supposed to be a perfect fit. NOT, I had to make 1.5" spacers for each side to get the front track back out where the original was.

To me when you put a replacement after market front end into your vehicle the front track should be the same as the rear or very close. Not tucked way under the fenders like you put a VW front end in the car.

That way when you buy wheels and tires you only need one spare.

Just MHO.

Dan

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by decodan

Hey,

My BIG question and problem with most every after market IFS is they are too narrow. Even the one above says it is 2" narrower. I once put a complete new IFS under my 1954 Chevy Sedan Delivery, it was supposed to be a perfect fit. NOT, I had to make 1.5" spacers for each side to get the front track back out where the original was.

To me when you put a replacement after market front end into your vehicle the front track should be the same as the rear or very close. Not tucked way under the fenders like you put a VW front end in the car.

That way when you buy wheels and tires you only need one spare.
Just MHO.

Dan

I've never used the same size tire/wheel front & rear so I go w/the correct size 'spare' for the front (if I even have a spare). If it's needed on the rear, it's treated like a temporary spare to enable me to get to the next location for proper repair.

[decodan]

Hey, What I was talking about was having to have different wheels with different back spacing to make the the truck or car look and handle right.

If the back spacing is different then the wheels may not fit front to back and vice versa.

Personally I like the look of the same size tire front and back, like factory.
Dan

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by m6z

Assumeing the Flamming River kit works as intended. Couldn't one of the board sponsers make somthing similar at a much lower price point? I would think this would be a hot item if you could use your stock column and lower the price quite a bit.

I know this is an older post, but I thought since its being used as a reference point in a newer post on the same topic I thought it would be worth digging up again. LINK

Originally Posted by michaelnolimit

OK guys, it's looking good so far. This kit will include a P/S rack, mounting kit, machined tie rod adjusters, Lower steering U-joint, Drivers side motor mount, lower steering shaft, and probably two cutom fitting for the rack. Now, what do you think is a fair price point. Looks like the kit would be in the 775 range. Not to far off of a complete rebuild of the factory P/S, and our rack kit cuts bumpsteer to .192 deg. in 3" travel either side of RH. Well?

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by decodan

Hey, What I was talking about was having to have different wheels with different back spacing to make the the truck or car look and handle right.

If the back spacing is different then the wheels may not fit front to back and vice versa.

Personally I like the look of the same size tire front and back, like factory.
Dan

While that may be your "personal" preference, it's not a very common one in this application.

I would venture that the vast majority of people that want to run an aftermarket IFS, or add a R&P to conventional steering truck are looking to lower their vehicle a considerable amount. I would also speculate that those same people will be running a wider rim and a wider and taller tire on the rear. Some much so that it would not be possible to use it for a replacement on the front.

The reason these companies create a suspension system with a narrower track, is demand from the user for a narrower track width to allow for clearance when lowered.

[76kcfdeng]

Originally Posted by jnocero

I took a look at a 91 chevy 2wd front rack and pinion today, with a 4.3 V6. They have a smaller crossmember under the engine that doesn't carry the engine mounts (they mount right onto the frame).
The rack is bolted to a crossmember in front of the engine that is in about the same place as the front crossmember on my 67. I am going to get some measurements when I can. Does anybody know any good technical articles on what causes bump steer?
The steering column on the 91 has two universal joints under the dash to get the shaft through the firewall to the right of the master cylinder, then two more to get it inside the frame to catch the rack.
Looks like a hot rod setup.
Should be easy enough to find a 91 rack to start playing with.

Go to the suspension forum here and read the "make it handle thread", Rob from Nolimit explains bumpsteer and lots of other things about handling.

Glen

[devsrevs]

Performance Online now offers a rack just for 67-72 with a complete setup not just some of the pieces, best part it's reasonably priced $1299.00 unless you need a column too which is $350-$600 depending on model