Starter...again...still..

[hayhauler71]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

bellhousing bolts? How do I check for that?

The bolts that hold the transmission to the engine.

[Zeke's Garage]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

The guys at the paint shop said that it started grinding there so they changed it.

This is beyond suspicious to me... You never know what kind of tomfoolery people will get up to around other peoples property.

For all you know a couple of guys were playing grab-a$$ and knocked over an OXY tank, broke the neck on it and it shot across the floor and wham! Right into your flexplate. Then they tried to cover it up by 'doing you a favor'. I saw it in a movie once, so now I'm convinced it's an everyday occurrence

Anyway, because of my enormous distrust of others and their 'skill', I'd rather have my stuff broken than pay someone else to 'fix' it.

Do we have any board members in the area that could meet up for a diagnostic session? I would be up for it, but I'm about 10 hours away

Sadly, it does sound like the trans needs to come out, or at the least moved back several inches so you can unbolt the flexplate and verify that it's round and true, and that you know exactly what you're working with.

[VetteVet]

Before you go all crazy and start pulling the transmission you need to inspect the flywheel ring gear. It doesn't sound to me like there's anything wrong with it short of maybe a spot where the ring gear is ground off enough for the starter bendix to slip. If it was out of round enough to disconnect then the engine wouldn't make more than one revolution before it reached the bad spot and I gather that you say it turns a few times then starts grinding.

In any case it's easy enough to check. A bad spot on the front of the ring gear (engine side ) would be obvious. Out of round is easy to check by marking a spot on the engine right next to the ring gear and slowly rotating the flywheel and watch the teeth to see if they move away from the mark like truing a bicycle wheel. If you remove the spark plugs it will make turning the engine over a lot easier.

I don't feel like re-reading all the posts so I'll ask, have you done anything with the ford solenoid? Here's why. After a time the solenoids get corroded inside and they don't allow full power to go through them. As the engine spins the voltage drops on the large cable and the jumper wire that activates the starter solenoid. This allows the starter solenoid to disengage and re-engage, which moves the starter gear in and out away from the flywheel, causing it to grind. A weak battery would do the same thing.
I would make sure the battery is fully charged or even get a jump from another vehicle,then if that didn't work I'd remove the small jumper on the starter solenoid and put both the large cables on the same post on the ford solenoid. Then I'd jump between the large post on the starter solenoid and the S terminal with a screwdriver, make sure the truck is out of gear and ignition off or disabled. You could leave the spark plugs out for easier turning. If the engine turns OK then you can replace the plugs and re-test and if it still turns ok then you know the ford solenoid needs replaced.

[70chevykidd]

My truck is doing the same thing. It starts sometimes but then if it stops at a certain point then it starts grinding or sounds like just the starter is spinning so I have to get my socket and crank the motor over a little and cross my fingers to hope I starts lol then that throws the timing all outta whack. Any suggestions?
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[biggestjohn]

No need for anyone to drive down there. Just take a video recording,with sound, and post it on youtube. You might be able to see what is happening that way. I did this once on my Stealth, no need for an extra pair of eyes that way.

70chevykidd, you definitely have a flat spot on flex plate. The next time it stops in that position, crawl under and feel the teeth on fp, you'll feel it.

[GMCjunkie]

Zeke, thats funny. I dont think there was anything amiss at the paint shop as far as I know. But that would be just about my luck, I swear im the definition behind "murphys law". And yes, 10 hours is too far, but I appreciate the thought.

Vette, "sometimes" it will turn a few times, usually it grinds as soon as I turn the key. Last time I tried to start it, it did act like the battery was weak/dying. I havent done anything to the solenoid.

"flywheel ring gear", is that the actual "teeth" on the out side of the fly wheel?

I can rotate the flywheel as you say and check for out of roundness.

I can also take the battery in and have it checked for voltage.

Can I take the f%@!d solenoid off all together and put it back the way its supposed to be? If yes, how do I wire it? Diagrams with kindergarten type pics are awesome

Thanks you again!

[steelscout]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

Diagrams with kindergarten type pics are awesome

LOL thats me as well, since I am completely green at working on these fine trucks and engines!
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[VetteVet]

It's very simple. Follow along below.

AS I understand it this is what you have currently.




This is what the stock system looks like. All it involves is removing the battery cable and running a new 4 gauge cable from the battery positive post to the starter solenoid. Then remove the small wire that goes to the ford solenoid and connecting it to the "S" terminal on the starter solenoid. This wire is a 12 gauge purple wire and it originates at the ignition switch and runs to the neutral start switch on the top of the steering column. From there it goes to the firewall plug by the brake master cylinder, and then to the starter solenoid at the S terminal or the inside terminal next to the block. This wire should already be in place and it is the small wire that powers the ford solenoid, so all you should have to do is connect this wire directly to the starter solenoid if you have enough length.





Then you should have a circuit like this.

[eightbanger]

For all you know a couple of guys were playing grab-a$$ and knocked over an OXY tank, broke the neck on it and it shot across the floor and wham! Right into your flexplate. Then they tried to cover it up by 'doing you a favor'. I saw it in a movie once, so now I'm convinced it's an everyday occurrence

This is exactly what happened, the best...

[SeventyOne]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

My truck still grindes whenn I try to start it. My amperage is effecient, my fly wheel looks fine, the starter is new and has no apparent cracks or damage. I have tried 1,2,3 and 4 shims, I have tried shimming only the outside with 1, 2 and 3 shims. It still grinds, the guy at Advance (not my usual choice for automotive advice) says I need a high torque starter. Gomer says Bubba can come tow it to Goobers shop and I can leave it for a few days and he can try to "figger it out". Thats NOT going to happen. Getting frustrated. The guys at the ol guys parts store say you cant get the brackets for the starters and that I have to fabricate one. I have done every thing within my limited power. What next?


Oh, took some pics of what I can see, dont know if it will help any.

Thanks!
junk

Did this situation ever get resolved? I'm having an issue where my starter gear is not close enough to the flexplate. Instead of the ~1/8" distance before the starter engages it is roughly 5/16". I have yet to measure gear mesh because it is so far out of whack already.

When the original poster posted pics of his starter it looks awfully similar to my issue. Look at the last picture in post #1. Shouldn't the flexplate be "further into" the nosecone?

[GMCjunkie]

I have not resolved it as yet. I got totally frustrated with it and parked it. Gonna try again soon. I go out and start it periodically, most of the time it will start, but sometimes it grinds and wont start. I was hoping my son could help once he got out of AIT, but hes gone right into seasonal training, so, looks like Ill be taking it back to the mechanic. Ill update when I do something with it. Thanks

junk

[kingnothin_36]

GMC junkie,
Don't know if your starter problems are fixed but I thought I would chime in. I had the same issues you were having, it starts fine but after driving it, it would grind and not start. Well, I finally found what the issue was. I was using a stock starter from NAPA or SHUCKS or any of those auto parts stores. What I found out was when the engine gets hot, it is hard to turn over because of the heat and compression. Those stock starters are have barely enough torque to turn over the engine especially when it is hot. I installed a mini torque starter and it was fixed! I have been running it for about four years and have not had any problems with it. No grinding and it starts every time. I bought my torque starter off ebay. Hope this helps.