Yet Another M/C Booster Question

[Itnkrman]

I've gotten lots of things done with all of the great information on this site, however, I've searched until I'm blue in the face and can't piece together the info I need this time so here goes....

My 62 C10 still has drum brakes all the way around and I plan on splitting the brake lines. I've purchased Captainfab's adapter bracket and was given a M/C and brake booster off of a 94 Suburban.

I know the bracket and the booster will mount up perfectly. However, can I use this M/C with all drum brakes? Do I need a proportioning valve? If so, will the proportioning valve off of the same Suburban work? If I have to get a new M/C, will a drum/drum M/C bolt up to this booster?

Thanks in advance for your support!

[Captainfab]

All you need is a master cylinder for a '67-'70 truck with power brakes. It will bolt right up to that booster. No you do not need a proportioning valve. The '67-'70 trucks had what amounted to a distribution block. But you really don't have to use that if you don't have one, just plumb directly to the master.

[Itnkrman]

Awesome! Thanks Captainfab for the quick response!

I guess O'reilly's get a little more of my money. Do you happen to know their part number for this M/C?

[Captainfab]

No I don't off hand....

Originally Posted by Itnkrman

Awesome! Thanks Captainfab for the quick response!

I guess O'reilly's get a little more of my money. Do you happen to know their part number for this M/C?

[Captainfab]

I looked on O'Reilly's website and found these:

Brake Best new master cylinder: BHH-NMC1329 $73.00
A-1 Cardone reman master cylinder: 10-1329 $15.00

However they were not specified as power or manual masters. This master fits the '67-'70 trucks as well as many full sized passenger cars from '67-'69

The Wagner MC64885 master cylinder says it is for vacuum assist brakes, but also shows and unavailable.

I'll see if I can verify if the Brake Best and Cardone masters are manual or power.

[Itnkrman]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

All you need is a master cylinder for a '67-'70 truck with power brakes. It will bolt right up to that booster. No you do not need a proportioning valve. The '67-'70 trucks had what amounted to a distribution block. But you really don't have to use that if you don't have one, just plumb directly to the master.

I've gone to O'reilly's and AutoZone and exhausted all of their M/C's. None of them have the larger bore and all of them require a longer pushrod than is what's on the 94 Suburban booster. I'm just not able to find a M/C for that booster. Apparently, I'm missing something. Has anyone else been down this road? Any suggestions???

[AngryPirate]

This is what I used, although I haven't moved up to power braking yet.

http://www.classictruck.com/product/...ster_Cylinders

Bigger bore and a push rod that can be cut to size.

[jocko]

that is a master for a disk/drum setup I believe. Also, it will not work since it is not a power m/c, there is a difference. Itnkrman is still 4wheel drums. Highly recommend a 1967 C10 m/c - specifically for a power brake setup.

Ideally, just buying the master and booster and m/c together would eliminate any mating concerns. But, as Capt Fab pointed out, a POWER m/c should bolt up to the booster you have.

Just to elaborate - the difference is this: the depth of the receiving bore in the m/c piston is a different length between a power and non-power mc. A non-power m/c has a deep bore in which the pedal push rod end inserts (i.e. I'm not talking about the push rod from the brake pedal itself, the one that comes out of the front of the booster - that is one you do not want to have to modify, so a direct mate is important). A power m/c has a very shallow bore that receives just the nub of the intermediate pushrod coming out the front of your booster.

So, bottom line - go down to Oreily, take your new booster with you, and buy a power m/c for a 67 C10 - in the store, make sure it mates to your booster (not just the mounting holes, but also the m/c piston bore depth should match how much the booster's front side intermediate push rod sticks out (and it's very little) - then you're good to go. Take it home and bolt it all on!

[Itnkrman]

I've been to Orielly's and Autozone. I've gotten them to look up and pull the different powered master cylinders they have in stock (67-70 chevy truck, impala, biscayne, etc.) and none of them are right...so far!

The bore is both to small and requires a longer push-rod. So based on what you're suggesting, they just don't have a powered drum/drum M/C in stock. Maybe I should try NAPA, maybe the can help me out.

Why can't I just use the M/C off of the 94 Suburban? I mean I know it's for disk/drum. But why won't it work?

[MisterC]

I recently went through this ordeal and finally found the right Master Cylinder through trial and error on the O'reilly site. I found the power drum master off of a 70 Buick Estate wagon to be the right fit. Large piston with a shallow bore. I believe it was a Cardone 10-1363. Good luck!

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...1292&ppt=C0066

[AngryPirate]

Originally Posted by jocko

that is a master for a disk/drum setup I believe. Also, it will not work since it is not a power m/c, there is a difference. Itnkrman is still 4wheel drums. Highly recommend a 1967 C10 m/c - specifically for a power brake setup.

Ideally, just buying the master and booster and m/c together would eliminate any mating concerns. But, as Capt Fab pointed out, a POWER m/c should bolt up to the booster you have.

Just to elaborate - the difference is this: the depth of the receiving bore in the m/c piston is a different length between a power and non-power mc. A non-power m/c has a deep bore in which the pedal push rod end inserts (i.e. I'm not talking about the push rod from the brake pedal itself, the one that comes out of the front of the booster - that is one you do not want to have to modify, so a direct mate is important). A power m/c has a very shallow bore that receives just the nub of the intermediate pushrod coming out the front of your booster.

So, bottom line - go down to Oreily, take your new booster with you, and buy a power m/c for a 67 C10 - in the store, make sure it mates to your booster (not just the mounting holes, but also the m/c piston bore depth should match how much the booster's front side intermediate push rod sticks out (and it's very little) - then you're good to go. Take it home and bolt it all on!

What makes this only for a disc/drum set up if you add the 1/4 brake line reducers to it? The push rod is modifiable on this one as well as it points out, it is for manual and power applications.

Just curious.

[Captainfab]

I did not have much time today, but I did stop by O'Reilly's and check out the #1329 master cylinders. They do have the deep bore in the back of the piston which is commonly used in manual brake applications. The store did not have any other info on whether that master is for manual or power applications, nor did they show one. Of course Itnkrman had the same experience, I'm just confirming with what I have found.

I'm going to pull the master off of my Suburban tomorrow and have a peek, just to be sure it is how I remember it. It looks like MisterC may have found the correct one, but I just want to get to the bottom of why there doesn't seem to be a power master listed for the '67-'70 trucks. I agree that checking with NAPA may produce better results. Thank you MisterC for the info.

As an alternative the '67-'70 booster and master combo #50-3715 from O'Reilly's would work. But of course it is more money.....

[Captainfab]

Well it looks like I owe some of you an appology. I pulled the master off of my Suburban and it does have the deep bore in the back of the master. I have only put 2 masters on the Burb since '92, but I just did not remember it being like that. So apparently the deep bore masters were used up thru 1970. I thought they ended in '66. The #1329 master can be used on a later model booster, but you will have to change the intermediate pushrod. I know a guy with a '68 with factory power brakes, so I am going to see if he'll let me pull the master and get a confirmation measurement on the intermediate pushrod. When I get that measurement confirmed, I will post that info in my booster bracket for sale thread. I may also see about making up a few of them.

Of course a guy could also go with the #1363 master that MisterC posted

Sorry for the confusion guys

[Itnkrman]

Thanks for the extra effort Captainfab. A longer piston rod on the booster would have solved this issue a lot cheaper. If I knew the length I could have cut my own very easily. Regardless, I'd like to get this straightened out so others don't have to beat their head against the wall like I have.

I took MisterC's info and did some research and it looks like it'll work. I've ordered the 10-1363 M/C from the local O'Reilly's. Should be here Tuesday. I'll keep you posted.

Also, I was able to fix the fitment issue with the automatic column shift/Booster clearance issue while using your bracket. I'll post more info and a pic later.

[Itnkrman]

MisterC - Picked up the booster from OReilly's yesterday and it's exactly what I've been looking for so that problem is solved. Thanks for the help!

Captfab - in addition to adding 3/8" bushings between your bracket and the booster I also modified the attachment point of the shift lever and shift rod. The combination of the two fixed the issue. Just thinking out loud, I think if you extended the offset from the firewall on your bracket about 1/2" that would accomplish the same thing.

Also, getting to the bottom two booster bolts with the engine and everything else installed is a royal pain. I understand asthetics would suffer but you might consider changing the bend on the booster bracket from "outside in" bends to "inside out" bends. That would put the bolts outside the bracket and make access much easier.

Just my .02