removing crossmember

[63burban4x4]

I have decided to use a 700r4 in my 4 wheel drive 63 suburban, with a 350 motor. I'm going to get a trans crossmember from Bowtie Overdrives. I have searched and couldn't find the thread, but I think I read on here that removing the existing bell housing mount crossmember could allow the frame to flex. That, coupled with the difficulty involved in removing the rivets holding the crossmember in (I'm not removing the body from the frame) have me wondering if I could just leave that crossmember in the truck. Will that interfere with the 700r4 install? I'm planning to run the exhaust outside the frame, so I don't think that will be a problem either way. Any thoughts on this?

[padresag]

where is your orig thread. it did show how your eng was mounted in there. can't remember. thought that you were with the white one from the west sorry.
you are running stk mounting.so when you remove that b/housing crossmember, you will have no support from your small front rad support back to the rear trans mount c/member that you will put in. that crossmember that you are going to remove supports the frame at the rear of the frt spring
ron

[ChiefRocka]

I would fab up a crossmember under the engine, staying clear of the front axle.

Mabey a removable 2" square tube style...bolt in.

Wont take much to stiff'n up....
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[padresag]

on mine I used an eng crossmember from a 67 or 8 4 x 4 frame. this stiffens up the frame,esp for the steering box.

By rondavid at 2009-03-04
4 x 4 panel and suburban( and other 4 x 4) frames are 2" deeper in the middle section, so don't mount you new rear trans crossmember on the bottom section of the frame as everything will be 2" to low. measure down from the top. I used an orig 2 wheel dr powerglide crossmember in mine an it bolts to the top of the frame and also fab a piece for down below


ron

[63burban4x4]

I'm aware that removing that crossmember will leave no support from the radiator back to the new crossmember. That's why I'm asking if I can just leave the bellhousing crossmember in place, and specifically whether it will interfere with the 700r4. I know that the steering box area is especially susceptible to flexing, my son had a 65, and had trouble with the frame after installing PS. My frame has been fishplated in the area behind the steering box (inside of the frame) and has a vertical gusset there as well. My steering box is mounted with cap'n fab's kit. That will probably keep that area from breaking, but I know I need to adress the flex in the rest of the frame.
Bowtie makes a trans crossmember specifically for the 63 4 wheel drive, suburban, which I assume adresses the height issue.

Ron, I never started another thread on this issue.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

I'm aware that removing that crossmember will leave no support from the radiator back to the new crossmember. That's why I'm asking if I can just leave the bellhousing crossmember in place, and specifically whether it will interfere with the 700r4. I know that the steering box area is especially susceptible to flexing, my son had a 65, and had trouble with the frame after installing PS. My frame has been fishplated in the area behind the steering box (inside of the frame) and has a vertical gusset there as well. My steering box is mounted with cap'n fab's kit. That will probably keep that area from breaking, but I know I need to adress the flex in the rest of the frame.
Bowtie makes a trans crossmember specifically for the 63 4 wheel drive, suburban, which I assume adresses the height issue.

Ron, I never started another thread on this issue.

sorry that I replied. the crossmember removal was addressed just the other day
ron

[MikeS.]

63, I'm very interested in this thread. I plan on doing the exact same thing to mine next year. Also a 63 4x4 Burb.

What t case are you going to use?
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[63burban4x4]

Ron, you say that this crossmember issue was addressed the other day.....I'm not seeing that thread, any chance you could link me to it? hey, is that a PTO on the side of your transfer case?

Mike, I'm planning to keep the original divorced transfer case, should just need to probably shorten the jackshaft, according to Bowtie. That way I don't need the 700 with the attached transfer case, it'll be the same trans as the 2WD.

[63burban4x4]

Ron, to be clear, I did see a thread about HOW to remove the crossmember (rivets), what I'm asking is does it NEED to be removed to accomodate the 700r4.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

Ron, to be clear, I did see a thread about HOW to remove the crossmember (rivets), what I'm asking is does it NEED to be removed to accomodate the 700r4.

I said that it had been addressed
and I am usually pretty clear
ron

[jonzcustomshop]

I think it will be in the way, I was going to leave the std shift member in my wifes 63 2wd when I put a v8 auto in it, and there was pretty much no way to work around it, so I ended up cutting it out.

[63burban4x4]

Originally Posted by padresag

I said that it had been addressed
and I am usually pretty clear
ron

Ron,
sorry, to me it wasn't clear at all. What you are, is rude. I've seen you be rude to others here, and I find it totally uneccessary. You may know all there is to know about these trucks, but as far as I'm concerned, you will do me a favor to just ignore my posts and questions here, and I plan to do the same for yours. I'm frankly surprised others have not made the same request. I for one will muddle through somehow.

jonz, thanks...that's the info I was asking for.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

I'm aware that removing that crossmember will leave no support from the radiator back to the new crossmember. That's why I'm asking if I can just leave the bellhousing crossmember in place, and specifically whether it will interfere with the 700r4. I know that the steering box area is especially susceptible to flexing, my son had a 65, and had trouble with the frame after installing PS. My frame has been fishplated in the area behind the steering box (inside of the frame) and has a vertical gusset there as well. My steering box is mounted with cap'n fab's kit. That will probably keep that area from breaking, but I know I need to adress the flex in the rest of the frame.
Bowtie makes a trans crossmember specifically for the 63 4 wheel drive, suburban, which I assume adresses the height issue.

Ron, I never started another thread on this issue.

the problem without added crossmembers is the steering box. even in 2 wheel dr there is cracking at the box and that has a a fairly big crossmember there.
Capt fabs kit is a steering box adaptor and will help in preventing cracks at the mounting holes and is good at what it does. even if you box it for a little distance it will more than likely cause cracking where that ends, experience does count at times. put your p/s on there and 33x12.5 tires on there and start turning it parked and see how much that frame moves. just look.
it doesn't say that bowties crossmember is for a 4 x4 but ladder back suburban frames from 60-63. should read 60-62 frames from 63-66 are the same. all 4 x 4 frames from 60-62 are the same as are 63-66 except on 63 it allows for the early cab mounting, yet they do not also list a trans crossmember from 63-66 for 4 x 4s. 4 x 4 frames are 2" deeper in the middle area.
It does make it easier to install the trans and also to remove it if you ever have to with that crossmember removed from under the bell housing area. you can leave it in there though. you may also have to massage the floor a bit. but for all general purposes and ease of doing things it should be removed and there should be some compensation replaced adjacently
ron

[64fleetside]

A 700R4 won't fit w/o removing the std crossmember.

[63burban4x4]

ignore, v. To disregard; to refuse to notice, consider, or recognize.

64fleetside, thanks. Again, that is what I was asking.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

I have decided to use a 700r4 in my 4 wheel drive 63 suburban, with a 350 motor. I'm going to get a trans crossmember from Bowtie Overdrives. I have searched and couldn't find the thread, but I think I read on here that removing the existing bell housing mount crossmember could allow the frame to flex. That, coupled with the difficulty involved in removing the rivets holding the crossmember in (I'm not removing the body from the frame) have me wondering if I could just leave that crossmember in the truck. Will that interfere with the 700r4 install? I'm planning to run the exhaust outside the frame, so I don't think that will be a problem either way. Any thoughts on this?

your inference to whether a 700r4 would necessitate the removal of that crossmember in your opening question was quite minimal ," Will that interfere with the 700r4 install?"
I do have one of those original p/glide crossmembers available.
ron

[argonaut]

I'm pretty sure you'll have to remove that bellhousing crossmember, as others have said. Some people just cut them out, and leave the riveted sections in the frame rails... I've never been a fan of that. Its not too hard to cut the rivets with an angle grinder and pound them out with a big punch and a 4lb sledge. I took my whole frame apart that way A cutting torch or air chisel would be far fast and less effort. Any muffler shop can probably cut those rivets for you.

You should certainly replace that removed corssmember with another one, under the motor. This is how the 73 and up K-series pickups are built.
All the Chevy trucks have at least 5 structural crossmembers. So if you remove the one under old bellhousing you must put another one in under the motor. I would do one of two things: either pull a factory crossmember out of a 73+ K-series pickup, or buy a tubular one from DIY4X.

[Captainfab]

The motor mount crossmember from a '73-'87 Kseries truck will have to be modified to fit an early frame. The '67-'72 K series motor mount crossmember fits with only holes to drill.

Here are pics of installing a '67-'72 motor mount crossmember in my son's '63 K10. Also, in the K series trucks the bellhousing crossmember bolts to brackets on the frame rails.

[argonaut]

Captain,
Good call. There would have to be some holes drilled to make the 73+ crossmember fit. I was forgetting about the 67-72 as a bolt in.
Question for you: I'm looking at the transmission crossmember in that 63 and it looks like it has a center drop-out section. I haven't seen that before...

[Captainfab]

You know, after I typed that, I got to thinking. That drop out bellhousing crossmember may be specific to the '60-'62's. The frame under my son's '63 is a '60-'62.

Originally Posted by argonaut

Captain,
Good call. There would have to be some holes drilled to make the 73+ crossmember fit. I was forgetting about the 67-72 as a bolt in.
Question for you: I'm looking at the transmission crossmember in that 63 and it looks like it has a center drop-out section. I haven't seen that before...

[argonaut]

Interesting. It looks pretty slick. Might make it easier to drop the trans down with the bell-housing attached rather than detached through the cab.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

You know, after I typed that, I got to thinking. That drop out bellhousing crossmember may be specific to the '60-'62's. The frame under my son's '63 is a '60-'62.

My 64 was riveted but was deeper than a 2 wheel version. a 200r4 would also give one a little more intermediate d/shaft also.
ron

[63burban4x4]

Thanks, guys. I knew there were plenty of guys here willing to offer CONSTRUCTIVE advice!

And, thanks for the supportive PM's to all who did so. Most of us know we are here to help each other out! -Ed


Capt'n, yeah, I'm pretty sure my BH crossmembe isn't drop down like your son's....my truck is not close to home right now, but I'm going to go by the shop and check....but that seems like a detail I'd remember! I have not taken any of that apart yet, been focused on other things, and just formulated a plan for the trans swap. I was originally just going to leave the 4-speed, I wouldn't mind it so much, but the DW said she'll never drive it without an automatic.....and you never know when you'll need a reliever!

[63burban4x4]

Had a chance to go by the shop today, and as I thought, no dropout in my crossmember....but I talked it over with the guy doing my fabricating, and I think we may leave the crossmember in place but cut out the center section just past the gusset that goes to the bottom of the frame, (sorry no pics) and build a drop section we can bolt in place to the original crossmember. . Seems like it would give me the best solution without too much work. Best of all, no rivets to beat out! My original crossmember is bent in the center anyway....somebody musta lost some teeth on that hit!
Thanks again for all the advice. When we get to this, I will try to get some pics. -Ed