Help /advice needed !

[slugish]

Just attempted to crank my truck after my 1st time do it yourself head & cam change . Problem is --won,t crank --starter turns it over fine but won,t fire . What i did : *lined mark on crank sprocket & mark on cam sprocket 6 oclock & 12 oclock like i was told for valve timing. * got # 1 cylimder to top dead center ( just put screwdriver in plug hole when pressure started building & quit turning crank when piston was all the way up ) * timing tab set at zero was right on the mark on the harminic balancer . * then i put the distributer in with the rotor pointing to # 1 plug wire.

What do i need to do now . Did have to use my shop vac to suck the gas up to the carb (is that normal having to do that ? > would not come up till i did that . Gas is squirting in my 750 holley now . Should i try moving the distributer around while my starter is turning it over or not ?
Did i do something wrong in lining the marks up for valve timing . Any help greatly appreciated !

[clinebarger]

Have you checked for spark?
Power to the "batt" terminal on the distributor?
Valves set to tight = no compression.


For future reference....Once you align the timing dot's together....Turn the crank one revolution....Both timing dot's will be straight up, This is TDC for #1 piston.

[slugish]

Thx for the response .

You are talking to a dummy here :

How do you ck for spark?

Where is the battery terminal on the distributer

what do you mean about valves too tight = no compression

[sandm2001]

no need to check for spark. the timing marks are off. it should be dot to dot when you line the crank and the cam gears together. the crank dot should be at the top and the cam gear dot should be at the bottom of the gear. dot to dot.

[slugish]

Originally Posted by sandm2001

no need to check for spark. The timing marks are off. It should be dot to dot when you line the crank and the cam gears together. The crank dot should be at the top and the cam gear dot should be at the bottom of the gear. Dot to dot.

thats the way they are > dot to dot > crank 12:00 oclock
cam 6:00 oclock

[sandm2001]

then you have a timing issue. best way to set timing is to have someone bump the motor over while you hold ur finger over the number one spark plug hole. when the compression blows ur finger off the hole drop the distributor in pointed towards number one. also check the valves if they are to tight it will not start either.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by sandm2001

no need to check for spark. the timing marks are off. it should be dot to dot when you line the crank and the cam gears together. the crank dot should be at the top and the cam gear dot should be at the bottom of the gear. dot to dot.

He said cam at 6 O'clock & crank at 12 O'clock....Dot to Dot?????

With both dots at 12 O'clock....The engine is still in time, And is TDC for #1 cylinder, Dots together is TDC for #6 cylinder.

slugish, Stock HEI's have a Pink 10 gauge wire with a white terminal on the end, This goes to the batt terminal. The coil cover is labeled TACH & BATT.

I recommend a Spark Tester to check spark, Though there are more adventurous ways

If the valves are to tight the valves will hang open...If you bottomed out unprimed lifters then a 1/2, 3/4 ,full turn "preload" The valves will not close = No compression, Or bent valves...Rare on stock engines.

[slugish]

Should have said before, i have a msd pro billet distributer & a msd 6 al box

[sandm2001]

You can line them up either way one way #6 is top center cam is at 6 o'clock 12oclock # 1 is top center if you put the marks together your probably gonna get your distributor in 180 off
Trust me here. if you put the crank at 12 o clock witch is correct (key-way straight up) and you put the cam gear at 12o'clock witch is wrong it will not even try to start and you will be taking it back apart I promise.

[mopar346]

The crank turn twice for every one time the cam turns, so if you line the up facing each other then one turn of the crank would bring it back up to the 12 position and leave the cam dot at the 12 position so no need to take it apart. Even if he put the distributor in 180 out it will spit and sputter and backfire but wont start, simple enough pull it out and rotate 180 and drop it back in. AND yes, you will usually twist the distributor while trying to fire an engine for the first time to get it to bust off.

I think the rocker arm/valve/lifter question needs to be answered, how did you adjust them when you reassembled.

Double check your MSD wiring to be sure you are getting power to and from the proper places. You can check the spark with a an old spark plug safely, but be careful with HEI cause it will bite and a MSD kicks like a mule.

Becareful sucking up fuel with a vacuum cleaner, it has an electric motor - go boom.

And the best way to set the timing is as mention, feel the top of the piston on the way up until it peaks and double check the mark on your balancer (the outer ring can slip). I will use my thunb to make sure I am on the compression stoke.

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by sandm2001

if you put the crank at 12 o clock witch is correct (key-way straight up) and you put the cam gear at 12o'clock witch is wrong it will not even try to start and you will be taking it back apart I promise.

With the crank dot at 12 O'clock....The keyway will be at a little past 1 O'clock.

With both dots straight up....The Crank & Cam are STILL in time, Like mopar346 stated....The Cam spins half speed.

[slugish]

Originally Posted by mopar346

The crank turn twice for every one time the cam turns, so if you line the up facing each other then one turn of the crank would bring it back up to the 12 position and leave the cam dot at the 12 position so no need to take it apart. Even if he put the distributor in 180 out it will spit and sputter and backfire but wont start, simple enough pull it out and rotate 180 and drop it back in. AND yes, you will usually twist the distributor while trying to fire an engine for the first time to get it to bust off.

I think the rocker arm/valve/lifter question needs to be answered, how did you adjust them when you reassembled.

Double check your MSD wiring to be sure you are getting power to and from the proper places. You can check the spark with a an old spark plug safely, but be careful with HEI cause it will bite and a MSD kicks like a mule.

Becareful sucking up fuel with a vacuum cleaner, it has an electric motor - go boom.

And the best way to set the timing is as mention, feel the top of the piston on the way up until it peaks and double check the mark on your balancer (the outer ring can slip). I will use my thunb to make sure I am on the compression stoke.

adjusted valves by turning rocker nut till zero lash ( when there was no slack in the rod ) then went 1/2- 3/4 turn more after turnin the crank over & getting the exhaust valve to just start to close & then adjusting the intake valve . Did just what instructions said to do . adjusted the exhast valve after getting the intake valve to open all the way up ( something like that)

whats the method of checking your spark with an old plug or what other method is there.

as a repeat my crank mark was set at 12:00
& my cam at 6:00

How can I tell or how can test to see if valves too tight.

would a compression test tell me anything

Sorry for so many questions

[slugish]

Originally Posted by sandm2001

You can line them up either way one way #6 is top center cam is at 6 o'clock 12oclock # 1 is top center if you put the marks together your probably gonna get your distributor in 180 off
Trust me here. if you put the crank at 12 o clock witch is correct (key-way straight up) and you put the cam gear at 12o'clock witch is wrong it will not even try to start and you will be taking it back apart I promise.

So you are saying ,since my crank is set at 12:00 & my cam at 6:00 , I put

my distributer in at tdc ,rotor pointing to #1 plug ,Iwill be 180 degrees off for sure or just sometime ?

[mopar346]

Originally Posted by slugish

adjusted valves by turning rocker nut till zero lash ( when there was no slack in the rod ) then went 1/2- 3/4 turn more after turnin the crank over & getting the exhaust valve to just start to close & then adjusting the intake valve . Did just what instructions said to do . adjusted the exhast valve after getting the intake valve to open all the way up ( something like that)

I usually just roll them in my fingers (index and thumb) til I start to feel a resistance and call it good. If I have any clatter I adjust it running. If I am looking for low end torque I I set them on the tight side, if I am going for RPM I set them on the loose side.

whats the method of checking your spark with an old plug or what other method is there.

Pull a plug wire, put an old plug in the end of it, ground the electrode finger to the block and spin it over. It will spark if working, MSD is gonna be a strong spark and if you are near it it will bite you and bite pretty hard. YOu'll live but it will jarr your eye teeth. I will do it holding the wire (after inspection) but I am carefull, use GOOD rubber handled pliers and you'll be fine.

as a repeat my crank mark was set at 12:00
& my cam at 6:00

I am satisfied you have it right.

How can I tell or how can test to see if valves too tight.

Either go back and reset them all or loosen them 1/2 a turn across the board. One thing we haven't talked about is oil pressure, have you got a reading yet? Good flow on the heads yet? THe reason I ask here is that if you installed dry lifters (new) the spring should have had the cup up but the spring offered very little resistence so zero lash might have been bottomed out, and then you cranked it another 1/2-3/4 turn so they are way tight. Oil pressure pumps the lifters up so that pressure us holding the cup against the push rod. When I have suspected this I loose my valves excessively, pull the plugs and spin the motor until I am getting oil flow and good pressure on a gauge. I have used a prime rod, but just more trouble since you have to pull the distributor and keep turning the engine.

would a compression test tell me anything

Yes, it will tell you if you are getting compression, which could implecate the valve setting but not guarantee it.

Sorry for so many questions

Hope this helps, I am working on the computer this morning so I will keep an eye on this if oyu have any follow up questions.

Good luck!

[slugish]

Originally Posted by mopar346

Hope this helps, I am working on the computer this morning so I will keep an eye on this if oyu have any follow up questions.

Good luck!

thx so much for taking the time to help me. Ijust got home & Im off to the garage .Im going to advance the distributer some before I do anything else . will let you know what happened.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Next time remember point the distributor at #2 cyl when you first put it in
Posted via Mobile Device

[slugish]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Next time remember point the distributor at #2 cyl when you first put it in
Posted via Mobile Device

1st time Ihave heard that .All sources I checked said point rotor to #1 cylinder. Not saying you are wrong ,just saying .

Thx Will

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Always been like that. Unless people on the hottoddlers ( lol) forum say not to. Even in the old hotrod and chiltons books
Posted via Mobile Device

[slugish]

Ill try anything .So what do I do .Take dist. cap off --point rotor to #2 cylinder . Do Ihave to take dist. all the way out & do that.

Another thing I just found , Im missing a hose that goes on the fitting on the back of my holley carb. What is this ? the small vac. hose that goes to the front of the carb is hooked up . . Would that back hose have anything to do with it not starting & where does the other end go since Ihave seemed to lost it.

Thx to all whos helping me with this

[INSIDIOUS '86]

That fitting is for the brake booster if yours isn't already hooked up to the intake. Otherwise plug it cause it's a vacuum leak. As for the distributor set the engine to tdc and pull the distributor just enough to turn it a tooth or so towards number two cyl. Don't worry if it don't go back down all the way. Tighten the dist' clamp enough to put tension on the distributor. Pull the hot wire from the dist' and crank the engine till the distributor set down then tighten it and put your hot wire back on.

If all is well and you have spark it should fire. If not a fireball will erupt and your timing is 180 out.

In case your Holley needs reset. Take the side mixture screws bottom them out softly then one and a half turns back out. Set the idle a lil high
Posted via Mobile Device

[slugish]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

That fitting is for the brake booster if yours isn't already hooked up to the intake. Otherwise plug it cause it's a vacuum leak. As for the distributor set the engine to tdc and pull the distributor just enough to turn it a tooth or so towards number two cyl. Don't worry if it don't go back down all the way. Tighten the dist' clamp enough to put tension on the distributor. Pull the hot wire from the dist' and crank the engine till the distributor set down then tighten it and put your hot wire back on.

If all is well and you have spark it should fire. If not a fireball will erupt and your timing is 180 out.

In case your Holley needs reset. Take the side mixture screws bottom them out softly then one and a half turns back out. Set the idle a lil high
Posted via Mobile Device

DO I KEEP THE ROTOR POINTED AT #1 CYLINDER . THEN TURN DIST. TO #2 . OR DO I GET THE ROTOR TO POINT TO #2 . sORRY TO BE SUCH A DUMMY.
ALSO CANT I JUST ADVANCE THE DISTRIBUTER & GET THE SAME RESULT OR IS THERE SOMETHING IM MISSING HERE .

[mopar346]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Next time remember point the distributor at #2 CYL when you first put it in
Posted via Mobile Device

I think I know your confusion, he is saying the #2 CYLINDER (left front of the engine facing it) not the #2 WIRE. By pointing it to the #2 CYLINDER you are essentially setting it to the #1 WIRE since theat is the typical position it resides on the cap. Jacking the distributor around will only give you so much movement but then you don't have enough usually to make the proper adjustment before the vacuum advance hits the firewall. I have also jumped the plug wires around clockwise one position at a time to get it to fire, the problem with that is you confuse other (and yourself) when you go to work on it next time.

If you pointed the rotor to the #1 WIRE on the distributor cap then it is right and it is as suggested essentially pointed at the #2 CYLINDER.

When all else fails go back to basic set up and you'll find it.

Keep at it, you'll get it.