How can I build 454 for low RPM Power/Torque?

[shtnangiten]

I have a 4x4 project that I opted to use a 454 for torque. It is a 1979 out of a 1 ton Camper Special, and has the huge factory oil filter, and external oil cooler. I have not torn it down yet, so I am not sure if it is a oval or rectangular port, or if it is a 4 or 2 bolt main. I have built several SBC engines, a Pontiac 400 & a 455. I have never opened up a 454, nor do I know a lot about them. I had a 2 wd version of the same truck many years ago with the 454 that was bone stock and I was very impressed with the power available. I am hoping to build one that is better, and more efficient than stock. My intended use with this engine is with a 700R4, built for heavy towing, and I am hoping I can come up with a plan to be able to tow my RV trailer in OD at about 1600 rpm without having to shift it down very often. My RV trailer weighs in at 7000 lbs max. Any ideas on what to do with a build to reach my goals?

[GASoline71]

The 700R4 won't last long behind a 454. Even in stock form a 454 puts out gobs of TQ. Unless that 700R4 get some serious work done to it. A TH400 or a 4L80E would be a better tranny.

454's can be built as just a warmed over stocker and still put out a lot of TQ. It's all the cubes that do it for ya.

Gary

[ozzyman]

+1 that 700r4 won't last long behind a 454, let alone towing....

[shtnangiten]

Thanks for the input about the transmission:

This has been a serious source of debate, the transmission. I got one shop saying the same you guys are, but several saying that the 700R4 can be built strong enough to handle it reliably, and even will warranty it. I am still up in the air over it, and may end up going to a manual transmission in the end with an OD, like maybe a re-worked, and strengthened NV4500. Maybe there are other suggestions for that. I was going to post a separate thread about that issue. I really cannot afford to go with the 4L80 with the computer.. One quote for that was over $5000. Maybe there are cheaper, reliable shops that can build one a lot cheaper. I don't know.

However, I am really in search of info about what to do with the 454. For SBC Vortec heads are mentioned a lot to get better flow for SBC engines. Same for a MkIV 454? The 454 Vortec heads? How about other things that might be good for it. Looking at probably the RV cam, the Edelbrock Performer intake, and a 750 to 850 carb. I would like to get a bit higher on the CR, and get more efficient flow, without having to go with the expense of Dart, or Edelbrock heads. I have matched ports, and polished ports in heads before on a couple of engines I did, so I can probably do that with this one too.

[clinebarger]

A 700R4 can not be used for heavy towing at 1600 rpm in OD.

[shtnangiten]

I forgot an important part of this build. I have access to a LP/Gas dual fuel kit from a LP gas company. I am not sure if I am going to add this, but with the price of LP being so much cheaper, I might just do it. I have heard going with LP, E-85 through E-98 will benefit greatly from a compression increase.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

A 700R4 can not be used for heavy towing at 1600 rpm in OD.

If you guys want your o/d to last in towing call PATC and ask them. After all they pioneered the heavy duty 700r4 as we know it
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[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

If you guys want your o/d to last in towing call PATC and ask them. After all they pioneered the heavy duty 700r4 as we know it
Posted via Mobile Device

What exactly did they pioneer?

[shtnangiten]

I am trying to find out info for the 454. Not about the transmission. I was going to post a separate thread about it. Thanks for the info given about the transmission. It is CRAZY there are so many different shops contradicting each other about this issue. I have had quotes from several shops, including Monster saying a 700R4 is adequate, if built properly. Now I don't doubt you guys know what you are talking about, not in the least. I certainly don't know crap about auto transmissions. I am SORRY I even typed in 700R4 in the original post. Even if I go with a manual transmission, I am still looking at the same thing with the 454, same goals if possible. However, I am not working on the transmission yet, I am attacking the engine first. Which is why I started this thread, I am looking for help with the 454. Thanks in advance.

[shtnangiten]

clinebarger: I just sent you a PM.

[GASoline71]

Again... a slightly warmed over stock 454 is going to put out gobs of TQ. Even with the stock heads and a mild camshaft.

Gary

[Average Joe]

I've read you cant go wrong with peanut port heads for stump pullin' power. Oval port heads like the 049 and 781 casting will make more power but will be at a higher rpm. I think a slight domed piston and a little more cam will do wonders for a smog era 454. IIRC stock compression on a 70's 454 was like 8 to 1. I'm considering a similar rebuild on my 74 454. I'd like to get better than my current 6mpg when towing my 6500# travel trailer. Hopefully ProstreetC10 and others will chime in as they seem very knowledgable with BBC's.

[RustyBucket]

I'm 'fraid you're gonna need a diesel to tow 7000lb. + the weight of your truck happily at 1600 RPM in O.D.. I run about 1500 rpm @ 70 mph with 3.07 rear and a .67 O.D. - TKO 500 transmission. I have a VERY mild 454+ .40 ... low compression, peanut port heads, performer RPM intake, headers, X pipe and a 4/7 swap torque cam. It's in a 2wd '72 Blazer. It burbles along happily at 70 but I don't think it would tow anything and not bog down. It will accelerate smoothly and not buck.. 2000 rpm is a little over 80mph.

I have a daily driver GMC crewcab 6.0, 3.73, 4L80E. Pulling a 24' Haulmark car trailer.. around 7000lb... it constantly shifts out of O.D. on flat ground and it's a PITA... If I take it out of O.D. it's REVVIN' and thirsty with the 3.73's. My buddy has the same truck as mine with a DURAMAX, tows a heaver 26' trailer, and gets much better mileage. I know the 6.0 is only around 364ci, but it's supposed to be tuned for torque in a truck.

[shtnangiten]

Avg Joe/Rusty Bucket: This is the type of info I am looking for, thanks. What I am trying to do might not be possible, but I think there is a combo of build that will make it work, towing at lower rpm. My cruise rpm of 1600 hits at about 60 mph, with lower gears of 4.10, which I am hoping will also be a positive factor, since I am geared a lot lower than your 3.07. Weight is a factor, but wind resistance is even more of a player. Example: 2009 Dodge RAM 4x4 with a 4.7 L: I hook up the 30' travel trailer and get about 9-10 mpg. I hook up my V nose Pace 12' cargo trailer, empty, still get only between 9-10 mpg. The travel trailer is a lot heavier. Has to be wind resistance causing the biggest portion of resistance, and if going a bit slower, it should reduce the drag factor a bit more. A Diesel is not an option for me. Some of my intended use for this truck makes it not feasible. I also know that I am not going to lug a hill while towing and keep it at 1600 rpm in OD. Not going to happen. My goal is to get it the best I can, the most low RPM torque. For all I know, the combo I am looking for is a fire breathing 800 hp build, though I doubt it. I am just hoping that somebody out there has already done what I am looking to do.

[vidman]

If you pay someone to recondition crank,rods ect. A few extra dollars will get you a stroker rotating assembly 4.250 stroke. that will get you big torque numbers. Use some heads with around 270-295 intake runners for good low end..

[vin63]

Originally Posted by shtnangiten

I have built several SBC engines, a Pontiac 400 & a 455. I have never opened up a 454, nor do I know a lot about them. I had a 2 wd version of the same truck many years ago with the 454 that was bone stock and I was very impressed with the power available. I am hoping to build one that is better, and more efficient than stock...My RV trailer weighs in at 7000 lbs max. Any ideas on what to do with a build to reach my goals?

Here's the dyno sheet on my Pontiac 462ci that I built specifically for my shop truck to tow a trailer - targeting high flat torque band off of idle and average 400 hp through 5000 RPMs. There is absolutely nothing fancy about it except for the aluminum heads so I could run a little higher CR. The heads have 2.11-I/1.77-E valves in an 85 cc chamber, and running around .580 lift. 750 cfm Holley vacuum secondary carb. This would be really easy to replicate in the BBC with a proven combo short block (a lot more and cheaper parts are available for Chevys). Shop around for the heads and intake and stay away from the high RPM racing stuff...I was looking for higher exhaust velocity rather than higher volume.

[shtnangiten]

Vidman: That's interesting, I didn't think about doing it as a stroker, I will look into that for sure. thanks.

Vin63: That certainly is a flat torque curve. Now that you have it on the road, how does in pull at 2000 rpm and under? I also see you have the 4L80E, were you able to get a decent price on one? Can you keep it in OD at lower rpms and still pull decent? Thanks

[vin63]

Originally Posted by shtnangiten

Vin63: That certainly is a flat torque curve. Now that you have it on the road, how does in pull at 2000 rpm and under? I also see you have the 4L80E, were you able to get a decent price on one? Can you keep it in OD at lower rpms and still pull decent? Thanks

I had it for just under a year before tearing the truck down again, but it is a beast. It feels a lot like my '07 K3500 Duramax. I got my 4L80e for a song (traded some fabrication and welding), but you can still find them around for pretty cheap...relatively speaking. I don't use OD very often with a trailer hitched. I would not use a 700R4 for what you are planning for your build.

[shtnangiten]

After the previous posts, I am not likely to do the 700R4. Looking at a HD OD standard, or if I can find a 4L80 and computer cheap enough, I will go that route. Thanks again for your input.

[b454rat]

Built a 427 tall deck. They have a incredible amount of torque, something like 500 ft/lb. Or take the block, put in a 4.25 crank, little longer rod and 496 pistons. Keep the peanut port heads, OEM 427TD or RV cam, whatever intake/carb. It would be a torque monster.

[jimbonice]

Check out TeamChevelle. The site has lots of mild peanut port builds, which are the heads you have. It's pretty easy to build a 400hp, 500tq 454.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

I do know that comp cams 4x4 cams are real nice for making low end torque and keeping fuel mileage in check. A stoker crank will Definitly help out a lot as will proper leverage ei gearing. And since you will work the engine hard at lower rpm I would suggest an oil cooler as well

I know you don't want to hear about transmission stuff but the strongest O/D trans is inly rated for up to 4500lbs in continual use in overdrive. And that's with a gratuitous converter

Try looking at comp cams can quest and experiment with all the diffrent cams.
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[jimbonice]

Car Craft did a 496 build with peanut ports a couple of years back. 9.6 -1 pistons, mild cam, big torque in the 600 ft/lb range iirc.
I've got 4.11's behind a built 700r4 in my 454 dually. It's been towing fine for about ten years now. The 3-1 first gear is nice to get large loads moving. Rpm at 60 mph is way higher than 1600, though, more like 2100. As far as towing in overdrive, I can't think of any transmission, automatic or standard, where it is recommended. If you want to keep your rpm's down, look at 3.54's. I used to have a 460 powered F-350 with these gears and a 5 speed, and it towed very nicely in 4th direct. One of the nice things about having big, tourqey motors is that you don't need stump pulling gears.
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[SSC's76]

wow all this nonsense here about 700r4s... the 454 will do great towing no need to stroke it but heck if the budget is there why not. You don't need to go all out for a tow rig. let us know which casting heads you have a good cam intake and exhaust it will tow that 7000lb trailer with no problem. I've towed car trailers uptown 5000lbs loaded with my setup granted my gears aren't the best for towing now I have a set of 3.08s but on the highway I can pass just about anything I want with no problems. got to admit sure is fun out pulling all of these diesel trucks up mountain passes with this gas engine


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