FI has spoiled me

[turbosix]

We had a cold front roll thru and it's freezing. Well, only high 30’s but 40’s is freezing for me. My new, to me, ’68 is hard to start and keep running. I can't even remember when I had a carbureted vehicle last. Haven’t even had the truck a week and I’m already thinking seriously about fuel injection. Other things are higher on the priority list but this cold weather is moving FI up fast. For now I’ll do a tune up and adjust the choke.

[Billett]

what kind of carb do you have? I use an edelbrock on mine and it usually starts up fine, but I let it idle for a few minutes before I drive anywhere otherwise it bogs down and dies. It always starts for me though. My priority was getting my heat fixed haha. Got that done, but now my priority is getting the heater vents and hoses cleaned out so I don't get a face full of crushed up leaves when I'm cold.

[turbosix]

It's a 2-barrel Rochester. It doesn't have the choke cable, just the heat riser spring choke. I want to put a cam in and switch to an Edlebrock until I dig up a FI set up. Blower fan doesn't work so I can't check heater out yet. I will check for leaves first.

[biggestjohn]

I'm with you, I'll never put another carb on an engine.

[truckster]

I just put a Quadrajet back on my Blazer. It starts with the first turn of they key and there's no stumble or hesitation even if I put it in gear immediately. We've had mornings in the teens around here lately.

A well-tuned carb (particularly a Q-jet) can give nearly identical performance to FI. And I've never had to worry about a check engine light on the Blazer.

To each his own - FI is great, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean carbs can't be just as good.

[POS1]

My carb has been very *****y with these 40-50 degree nights. Luckily I have a manual choke cable which works wonders - once I get her started! I will certainly FI myself somehow -!better running, better mpg.
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[69GWC]

Sounds like the carb or choke needs some work done to it, my 69 fired right up this morning at 17* it has a 670 SA Holley with electric choke.
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[TBONE1964]

To me, part of the coolness of having the 72 and 64 chevy trucks is having to get in, pump it several times on the 64 with manual chock and 2 times on the 72 and waiting for it to warm up. It is easy to see how modern technology has spoiled us. These cars today that are get in a go cars are nice but I still enjoy the way it use to be. I remember winters in Michigan as a 14 yr old boy and going out to start dads truck for him so it would get warmed up as he had his morning coffee. Those were the days.

[Hubscrub]

Originally Posted by truckster

I just put a Quadrajet back on my Blazer. It starts with the first turn of they key and there's no stumble or hesitation even if I put it in gear immediately. We've had mornings in the teens around here lately.

A well-tuned carb (particularly a Q-jet) can give nearly identical performance to FI. And I've never had to worry about a check engine light on the Blazer.To each his own - FI is great, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean carbs can't be just as good.

i totally agree, i rebuilt a edelbrock few months back and took the time to put it to the right specks and it starts and runs beautiful. We are i want it now generation getting worse by the day, i like my FI and i like my carbs too even more when you spending big $$$ on electronics to make it run right. my buddy told me today he has an 07 ford he just dropped 1,100 on this week for brakes and misfire he said this modern stuff just sucks. (they know i like my old stuff) you need to check the choke and make sure it operating, after 40 years of owners it hurts it most of the time.

[special-K]

All you need is choke to start a carburated vehicle in the cold. I have no complaints with carbs

[78bronzechariot]

I have to say that fuel injection is great! I do agree with previous posts that a well tuned carb can work well, but with the advances in FI technology, the only downside is initial cost. I work in a speed shop and have experience with everything from standalone aftermarket FI to factory engine management systems. The aftermarket stuff is great because you can tune it for any situation and engine. It can be anything from stock to blown or even sprayed. The aftermarket systems allow you to datalog and see what every parameter is doing, this can help with diagnosis, improving fuel economy or finding a little more power. The factory systems are much more reliable, but are much more difficult to deal with when you do something other than take a stock motor and transplant it. But even here that can be overcome, just another cost unfortunately. I have to be honest the best running old car I have ever had is my '67 with the 2002 Vortec 4.8 (LS based truck motor) and 4l60e trans. All the problems with that truck came from my right foot or the rest of the 45 year old truck.

The other things we have to look at deal with how much better FI is for the engine. We used to think 100,000 miles was a long way for an engine, now its more like 200,000 before you might need to consider a rebuild. A bunch of modern engine longevity has to do with cold start. FI requires much less enrichment to start in the cold, which in turn keeps cylinder walls from getting washed, oil from getting contaminated and reduces cold start high idle requirements. With a carb, it nearly floods the engine and immediately revs to 1400 rpm. That happening stone cold isn't good for any part of the motor, especially the bearings that want oil that isn't flowing quite yet.

[leftybass209]

While i completely agree that fuel injection is better on a motor, due to the reasons stated, The old gen I-II small blocks have far too many design flaws to rack up the high mileage like the newer motors. Sure, you do get hundreds of small blocks that can see the odometer rack up higher than 150,000 with little more than oil changes and general maintenace. That does not hold true for the majority though, regardless of the engines that have had TPI, MPFI, and TBI. We have seen incremental increases in the mileage and vehicles going further with less maintenace, but that is more due to advances in core engine design, rather than fuel delivery and management improvements. I myself have never had a problem starting a carb'd motor that has a good functioning choke, even when the motor has other problems. The small block i just currently had the heads done on would fire up in 20 degree weather, with ALL valve seals pouring fuel in the chambers, two cracks in one head, and bad valve guides, in less than 2 seconds of cranking. May not have been good on the motor, but it started and ran like a champ!

[turbosix]

Thanks for all the different opinions and good information. My toy for the last 13 years has been a Grand National which is FI and has no distributor. I gave my timing light to my friend who kept borrowing it and have been tuning with a computer.

I know how to work on carbs it's just been years. I think I will take up the challenge to get this motor running as good as I can with a carb. Maybe one day I will put FI on but for now I will have fun with the carb. I do like old stuff.

The accelerator pump isn't working and I looked at the carb and I don't see one. It has the arm that goes up to push it down but there's nothing there. Not even a hole where one should be. I though it was a 2-barrel but it might be a 1-barrel. I'm gonna change to a 4-barrel and slide a cam in

[LEEVON]

My '71 will start up in cold weather but I keep the battery fresh and I have the timing and tune where it should be...just a bump of the key, maybe one "hump" and she's off. No choke.

[BiggSixx1970]

My 250 Inliner's got a few miles on it, 83k, and plenty of vacuum leaking around the intake/exhaust manifold gasket and it's started just few the few days we've had so far below 20 degrees F.

Pump the peddle 2 or 3 times, turn the key, feed it a little gas for a couple minutes until it starts to warm up, then go back inside and finish my coffee just in time for it to be nice and warm

I was REALLY worried about having this truck this winter, it being my first oldschool vehicle but she continues to surprise me with how easy it starts in any situation. 250 I6's are DAMN reliable engines

[mattfranklin]

Assuming that you've given it a good tune-up and are still not satisfied... A possible workaround until you get a good TBI or PFI system installed, is cleaning it with Techron Concentrate.

In a previous job I did lots of testing (engine lab, dynamometers, precison mass balances, etc.) on engines with dirty valves and port fuel injectors. And the old-timers before me tested it on carburetors. It cleans things gently, safely, and effectively. Deposits on intake valves and carburetors can cause hesitation and stumbling.

So, before your fork over $1k (or more) for a fuel injection system, try the Techron. Make sure the bottle says Techron Concentrate (or Techron Concentrate Plus). If i remember correctly, the treat rate should be around 1 oz per gallon of tank size (i.e., 20 oz bottle will treat a 20 gallon tank). Do this for two tanks of gas and please tell us if you notice any changes. Of course, pick the same kind of cold day to do your test.

BTW, some of these old carbs have a rich/lean winter/summer adjustment. Loosen three screws, turn the black can a few notches richer, retighten the screws. Reverse process for summer.

[turbosix]

Originally Posted by mattfranklin

Assuming that you've given it a good tune-up and are still not satisfied... A possible workaround until you get a good TBI or PFI system installed, is cleaning it with Techron Concentrate.

In a previous job I did lots of testing (engine lab, dynamometers, precison mass balances, etc.) on engines with dirty valves and port fuel injectors. And the old-timers before me tested it on carburetors. It cleans things gently, safely, and effectively. Deposits on intake valves and carburetors can cause hesitation and stumbling.

So, before your fork over $1k (or more) for a fuel injection system, try the Techron. Make sure the bottle says Techron Concentrate (or Techron Concentrate Plus). If i remember correctly, the treat rate should be around 1 oz per gallon of tank size (i.e., 20 oz bottle will treat a 20 gallon tank). Do this for two tanks of gas and please tell us if you notice any changes. Of course, pick the same kind of cold day to do your test.

BTW, some of these old carbs have a rich/lean winter/summer adjustment. Loosen three screws, turn the black can a few notches richer, retighten the screws. Reverse process for summer.

I've heard Techron is a really good cleaner. The truck is in need of a tune up. The choke rod wasn't even connected when I got it. Something is wrong with the accelerator pump. I haven't had time to spend on it since I got it. I'm hoping this weekend I can give it some attention but with the holidays I'll have to wait an see.