Electronic Steering

[Shorty Cox]

Yesterday I was in the local dealership having routine maintance preformed on my company truck. While waiting in the waiting area, I was reading(skimming) the various "Auto mags" available. I skimmed across an article titled "Electronic Steering". The gist of the article was, this auto company(I think Toyota) was developing a steering system that was not mechanically operated thus eliminating the need for a rac & penion,etc. As I was getting into it, they called me to the service center as my truck was ready. I wish I had read the article.

Anyone know anything about this?

[harpo1313]

kinda like the fly by wire throttle systems on the newer harleys.some sort of stepper solonoids on each wheel i would imagine.im not a fan of electronic control unless totaly foolproof.also think its to the auto makers advantage as a qualified tec and special equipment is more than likely needed to troubleshoot and repair.personally ,i dont care for any of it as im schooled on the old stuff and at my age my brain isnt up to the challenge of learning or even understanding any of it. stuff i thought was cool in popular science mags earlier in life are here now.how about the cars that can park themselves in tight spots. I have visions of people standing around with their thumbs up ther butts when a solor eclipse comes along and me toolin by in my 66 lol

[3rd Coast Z]

There are quite a few cars that use the electric steering now. From the little research I have done on the subject there are three different setups. One is using an electric pump to control fluid pressure to the rack and pinion. This of course eliminates the parisitic loss caused by the belt driven pump. The Toyota MR2 I believe is the most talked about donor car for this set up.

But also recently I have seen a completely different set up where there is some sort of box on the steering column right where it passes through the firewall. No clue how that one works.

And finally, there is the Nissan steer-by-wire program that they will introduce in some of their luxury cars. There is a computer that controls actuators to steer the car. But it isn't a completely independent system. There will still be a mechanical link in case the steer-by-wire system fails.

Ok I'm done.

[nibulus]

Like the fellas above meantioned, it is a state-of-the-art steering.

A 100% electrical steering is due to legislative reasons not possible yet (at least in Europe), but it certainly will be at some point. All major manufacturers are developing various drive-by-wire solutions, i.e. it won't take long (<5 years) until they are widely spreaded.

As far as I know, Mercedes-Benz and Nissan are bringing (or already have brought) electromechanical steering into serial production this year (2013).

The major advantage is obviously weight reduction (and thus CO2), not only due to reduced number of parts, but also lack of fluid and/or the increased use of polymer (plastic) components.

I personally think it's a good option (even as a after-market solution), but would wait a few years until those steer-by-wire-systems a) are affordable and b) have the major quality-issues (due to new technology) solved.

Edit: who's interested in a bit more technical detail/comparison, have a look here:

=> Electro-hydraulic systems
=> Electric systems

[63burban4x4]

I've always thought it would be cool to have an electronic control for shifting an automatic trans......sure make it easier to change over to them. I picture the old Mopar dash push button shifters, but eliminating any need for linkage....just an elecronic control mounted on the trans......are you listening, Lokar? (maybe it's already available and I just don't know it?)

[jonzcustomshop]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

I've always thought it would be cool to have an electronic control for shifting an automatic trans......sure make it easier to change over to them. I picture the old Mopar dash push button shifters, but eliminating any need for linkage....just an elecronic control mounted on the trans......are you listening, Lokar? (maybe it's already available and I just don't know it?)

you might have to do some research, but I think it is, pretty sure I saw it in r&c or street rodder a few years back.. was mentioned as a solution for linkage/shifter location problems.

[Mack B]

Originally Posted by jonzcustomshop

you might have to do some research, but I think it is, pretty sure I saw it in r&c or street rodder a few years back.. was mentioned as a solution for linkage/shifter location problems.

Pretty sure I saw a set up like that on that tv show that was about Boyd codington's shop before he died. It was that green impala he built prob bout 6-7 years ago now.
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[blazins10]

tci makes an electric paddle shifter setup
and most hybrids already have electric steering also
newer civic si does too ,
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[rustyrodknocker]

The never ending spiral. Why depend on proven technology when we can just let the cars drive them self, get rid of one steel shaft and replace it with 1000 semiconductors. The lifespan of electronics was better 50 years ago and we didn't bet our lives on those ones. If this stuff is getting so much better why does it not last longer? I have and have had pc's laptops,tv's,dvd's, cellphones, microwaves, coffee pots, radios, inverter welders, plasma cutters,etc..... And you know what ? In ten years the one that are here now will be gone like the ones from before. And my 47 year old truck? It will be 57.
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[blazins10]

Well said rusty!
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[63burban4x4]

EVERYTHING has it's place. Without technology improvements, we'd all still be driving Model T's with wooden wheels and a hand spark advance. Just sayin'

[61_FL_Apache]

Originally Posted by rustyrodknocker

The never ending spiral. Why depend on proven technology when we can just let the cars drive them self, get rid of one steel shaft and replace it with 1000 semiconductors. The lifespan of electronics was better 50 years ago and we didn't bet our lives on those ones. If this stuff is getting so much better why does it not last longer? I have and have had pc's laptops,tv's,dvd's, cellphones, microwaves, coffee pots, radios, inverter welders, plasma cutters,etc..... And you know what ? In ten years the one that are here now will be gone like the ones from before. And my 47 year old truck? It will be 57.
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It doesnt last longer because its made in China! I have all the electronics I need in my truck.. That equals none!

[61_FL_Apache]

Originally Posted by 63burban4x4

EVERYTHING has it's place. Without technology improvements, we'd all still be driving Model T's with wooden wheels and a hand spark advance. Just sayin'

Thats why some are still around. They just needed better termite control

Take any modern car today and lets see if its last 50 years!! Not gonna happen!! Thanks to the Chinese, everything made today is crap!!

[jonzcustomshop]

my dad compares new cars (new to him, about 1977 to now ) to disposable bic lighters.

Alot of the time I notice 70-up muscle cars with a custom steel dash, say a 69 camaro w/ a 59 chevy dash... after driving my 71 elcamino , and what I remember of my 70 camaro from high school I would do the same thing, the plastic dashes in those cars just rattle apart, and it is a never ending battle of rattles and broken pegs/stripped screws.....

all of our newer cars will have a much shorter life span than the older ones, because I don't think the plastic will stand the test of time, it is unfortunate, because now it is pretty normal for a motor/chassis to last 100K+ miles, unlike our older stuff that was pretty much worn out by 130k.

so to the electric steering, to me there is no way I would feel comfortable with out having direct control of the cars action.
things that I think should remain mechanical are:
the on/off switch-ignition,kill switch, etc.. I.E. the problems they had with those hondas not turning off when the throttle stuck.
brakes, a lever of some sort should directly control the pressure to the pads- juice brakes, with an ebrake.
and the steering wheel to the steering box/linkage.

that idea of an electric pump to the rack sounds cool though, more pressure, and no power robber on the motor.

[63burban4x4]

I think technological advances and cheap construction are two different issues. If you want to consider them one and the same, that's fine, but even the 60's era vehicles were very much technologically advanced from any earlier vehicle. My late model Silverado is massively more comfortable, dependable, powerful, and safer than my 63 Suburban, to a large extent due to technological advancements. Will it last as long? hell, no. But I didn't expect it to when I bought it, either....I know it's a disposable vehicle. But if they are not more technologically advanced, why are so many of our trucks updated to later model running gear, performance options, and comfort upgrades? How many guys here are running 6.0 LS motors and 4160E transmissions, air suspension, disc brakes, etc? Why is that, if they are not better?
Arguably, vehicles today are driven more miles in a shorter time, with less maintenance than they were 50 years ago, because drivers/owners have come to expect that, as well as replacing them in a shorter time. When I was young, any vehicle with 100K miles was considered a very high milage vehicle. I saw an s-10 pickup this morning my brother just bought, the speedo reads in excess of 400K. That was unheard of back then. (Yeah, it's a pile of rust) Have manufacturers conditioned owners to that, or have owners conditioned manufacturers to it? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?