starting problem please help this is a daily driver

[jerry73]

starting pronlem please help this is a daily driver was off....so I advanced it and wala,it ran great....then my starter just started dragging real bad and making cluncking noises and then sometimes won't start after it warms up and I try to restart it...any ideas? Oh yea If I retard the timing the starter thing isn't as bad but then the truck runs like crap......it's a 1991454 motor in a 78 2wd with a turbo 400
Posted via Mobile Device

[Eyegore]

Did this start happening or has it been doing this since you purchased it, have you added headers or changed plugs, plug wires or cap, carb lately? Need a little more info.
Also check all vaccum lines, gas & air filters.

[74 stepside]

Timing wont have any effect on the starter. If the starter is going bad, then you have a bad starter. Might just be a coinsidence that It went bad after you timed the motor. Check and see if the wires are tight and maybe have the starter checked.

[hartbraker]

wrong. timing does have an effect on the starter. if you're too far advanced, once warm the motor will start harder.

[jerry73]

It's got headers that's it...and another note is I checked the bell housing and its all bolted up tight....carb,dist. Cap,wires are all good but nothig has been done except headers
Posted via Mobile Device

[overtimeracing]

Originally Posted by hartbraker

wrong. timing does have an effect on the starter. if you're too far advanced, once warm the motor will start harder.

I agree...too much advance can cause that. Reset the timing to factory spec, or around 6* BTDC and check to see if your vacuum advance is working correctly. I suspect the vac advance isnt working, or hooked wrong, or not at all, so you are advancing the timing to make up for it. The truck runs great, but when you try to start it, it doesnt like/need all that advance, so it is fighting compression to start. Lemme know if that helps! Kevin

[wiskers]

Yea, the last two post are CORRECT, the timing is to far advanced

[jerry73]

Where should the advance hook up ? It's an edelbrock carb
Posted via Mobile Device

[jerry73]

By running like crap when the timing bein retarted I mean it's slow throttle response and it spits up through the carb....I've yet to get much rpm out of it because the thing won't run right
Posted via Mobile Device

[Duster]

The only thing that will affect your starter is heat and misalingment. If the bindix is doesn't enguage the flywheel correctly it will chunk. The chunk sound is coming from the bindix not contacting correctly. Starting "harder" or what ever won't cause the starter to bounce on the flywheel. My guess is your starter's bindix is going out. I have never seen a vehicle bounce the starter because advance or retardation.

[Duster]

Originally Posted by 74 stepside

Timing wont have any effect on the starter. If the starter is going bad, then you have a bad starter. Might just be a coinsidence that It went bad after you timed the motor. Check and see if the wires are tight and maybe have the starter checked.

This guy is correct. Bendix is out.

[manimal]

Originally Posted by jerry73

Where should the advance hook up ? It's an edelbrock carb
Posted via Mobile Device

man, this kind of question starts WARS! "I" myself hook the vacuum advance to manifold vacuum. Now some will tell you ported vacuum.

[manimal]

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=75830
This is some VERY good reading.

[superwade57]

If the starter is turning hard only after its warm acting like the battery is weak almost then it can in fact and probably is advanced to much. Maybe to stop the war that is starting over this re word or be really specific about what you meant regarding starting hard. Regarding vac advance it doesn't matter ported or unported vacuum line. As long as it has vacuum also if the vac advance is hooked up properly spend the $1.22 and replace that vac line to be safe.
Posted via Mobile Device

[billnorman]

The vacuum advance has absolutely no affect on starting. I suspect your advance weights are stuck or frozen in the distributor. You should set the maximum advance at 32 to 34 degrees and then see where the initial advance falls to at idle without the vacuum advance hooked up. If it's less than 8 degrees BTDC you are O.K.
Advancing the timing can hide a lot of other troubles, not the least is a vacuum leak, bad carburetor, or sick engine.
You can advance timing to hide these symptoms, but not for long, something will break.

[bilfman]

From the info so far I believe there is only 1 major problem. I for sure feel that the starter is failing, hot and advanced will cause issues with a weak starter. Delco starters were notorious with heat issues from headers. So seeing that it has headers it could be a solenoid issue because of header heat. This can be fixed by incorporating a remote solenoid.

He said it did run great with some advance, so if it did and didnt start after, then for sure it is a heat/solenoid issue, or a starter on its way out.

Timing can make an engine turn over harder and can be way more apparent with a weak starter.

My vote is 100% starter from the info given by jerry73. No need to complicate it more.

[billnorman]

Well then, I suppose 454 cubic inches lighting off way before the piston hits TDC won't overwhelm a 12 volt starter system. In my personal limited 55 years of tuning and owning many Chevrolets I have seen it happen like clockwork.
I agree a starter and solenoid exposed to excessive heat can be less than optimum, and with this large motor it helps for everything to be correct. I do, however, fail to see why a NO COST check of the advance system should not be performed.
There are cans of worms, like good starter grounds, starter heat shields, good charging circuits, carburetors percolating and the list goes on and on as to what the trouble might be, but checking the timing is simple, and cost efficient.
What does a starter cost again? More than an hour with a good timing light.
Melting pistons gets costly quick.

[donut]

Like stated previously, starter on it's way out. May be due to heat, but I'm leaning toward too much advance.
Running way better with that much advance, imo, is band-aiding another problem.

How much advance are you running? What's it in? Mileage on engine?