Chrome MSD blaster 2 Coil heads up

[EricElle]

So my 63 Chevy c20 needed an igntion system tune up and i chose to upgrade to accel platinum plugs, msd spark plug wires (still waiting to get them this tuesday), msd cap and rotor part# 8406 (doesnt fit!) and lastly the chrome msd blaster 2 coil... i chose this particular coil because it was recommended by a fellow member on this forum in a previous thread (that i cant remember at this time) because it was American made, got it last night through jegs.... sorry to tell you but its no longer made in America! Made in china now. Buying American made products is important to me if time and wallet is willing, if i have problems with it ill be sure to keep you posted but if American made is a deal breaker then this coil is not for you

[EricElle]

Coil was faulty! Made my truck run like crap so i just put the old one back on, needless to say im returning it tomorrow. so disappointing...

[ChevyFreak60]

I had the same issue on 65....

[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by EricElle

Coil was faulty! Made my truck run like crap so i just put the old one back on, needless to say im returning it tomorrow. so disappointing...

Is that coil supposed to bypass the original ballast resistor? Did you install it, using the bal-res just like the original coil used? Just a guess... Anyway, good reason for returning something you did not want. I think it'd be good if all parts revealed their country of origin. It'd change lots of online orders.
sam

[Brad54]

One thing I'll add is NEVER use a chrome coil... they're oil-filled, and they build up heat in them. The black coil helps dissipate that heat, while the chrome coil reflects the heat back into the coil.

I've seen a few "vapor lock" issues that turned out to be a chrome coil issue.

-Brad

[HEI451]

I promised myself a while back, after being literally attacked by other members for posting the way things work correctly, to not post here again.

However, in this case, when misleading and outright incorrect info is given, I will post the correct info.

Regarding coils and the media that "fills" them, there are two. One is oil, actually, special transformer oil. The other is one of the literally thousand different mixes of epoxy resin.

It was mentioned just above this response, that the oil filled coils run hotter than the epoxy coils do. This can not be further from the real truth than can be. Yes, an oil filled coil will feel to the touch at the outside of the coil jacket to run hotter, but, at the windings core, the opposite is the real world truth.

All coils have layer upon layer of windings of very fine copper wire. They form a primary, and secondary winding for each coil. Between each winding layer, there is an insulating media. this media can be a layer of epoxy, or glass matting material, or other insulation, including a paper media.

As we all know, the windings create an electrical resistance as they operate, and that goes directly to the production of heat. This heat is 'managed' one of two ways, oil, or epoxy.

An oil filled coil should be mounted with the wire end up, so the windings stay completely submerged in the oil media. The same way a a number of the earliest vehicles we had work, the oil filled coils transfer heat from the windings layers and core by what is referred to as "Thermo-siphon". This is a cooling system that functions like our new vehicles, but with no pump and/or thermostat.

The thermo-siphon system works thus. Oil surrounds the windings inside the coil, and is heated as the wingdings produce heat. The oil, just like most other liquids, rises as it heats up, to the top of its own level. As the hot oil continues to rise, it causes its upper level to migrate outwards inside the coil jacket. As cooler oil is drawn into the windings from the bottom of the oil pool, the hot oil at the top of the jacket falls to the bottom of the jacket, dissipating its heat to the jacket, and cooling air outside the jacket. That cooled oil then takes its place at the bottom of the oil pool, ready to do the process again, and again.

Also, as we are all aware, epoxies are used to INSULATE heat, as in carburetor heat spacers, and other heat barrier devices, stopping/extremely reducing the transfer of heat past them. The epoxy resin in an ignition coil does not have the ability to readily transfer heat past itself. A very small amount of heat is transferred to the coil jacket with epoxy, but that amount of heat is small, and does not help to transfer heat away from the windings layers and insulation.

Therefore, epoxy filled coils feel cooler to the touch, than oil filled coils. Truth, just the opposite is the way it really is inside the coil, at the windings. The epoxy holds resistance created heat to the core, and oil transfers it away from the core windings.

For a couple of decades now, there is a fairly famous ignition system company that deals in large, coil in cap HEI's, that continue to insist they use an epoxy resin mix that "leaches heat out of the source". Well, FACT, there is only ONE epoxy resin that actually does that, leaches heat at 3 percent, the rest, are heat barriers. Now, we need to realize that the one resin they insist they use on their coils, is supposedly that same resin, except that this particular resin, the only one like it, is/was used exclusively/ONLY on our Space Shuttle, in one application only, and costs $100,000.00 (100 K bucks) PER OUNCE. Realizing that the average coil on cap HEI coil is filled with roughly 3 pounces of epoxy, that company was literally sacrificing a serious level of profit per coil.

We see far, far more coil failures, along with those failing coils taking modules out, on coil in cap large diameter HEI's, from those epoxy filled coils NOT dissipating the resistance heat out of the coil body. Ever go pull a coil cap off a large, coil in cap HEI at the wrecking yard, and find the coil body literally split wide open? That split, and/or the layer short inside that coil is directly caused from excessive heat those coils cannot dissipate correctly. And, yes, the company I just mentioned in the past paragraph, has its fair share of both in cap coil, and HEI module failures. Doesn't sound like their Super Special Space Shuttle epoxy filling media is working the way they clam it does.

For many years, I have outlined and recommended changing the coil on the large diameter HEI, to remove the epoxy filled coil, and replace it with a round, oil filled coil, off the cap. Many, especially those with engines in engine bays that hold and saturate with heat, such as motor homes, have done this one modification, and stopped the ongoing HEI module failures they had been plagued with. those that have insisted on using a round, epoxy filled coil, and not the oil filled coil, had a significant continuation of both coil and HEI module failures. After finally switching to the oil filled coils, these ongoing coil/HEI module failures stopped....cold.

I have seen brand new round, epoxy filled coils, more than a few, take an HEI module out in less than 30 seconds, and actually do the same on MSD 6 and other series ignition boxes as well. Conversely, in all fairness, I have seen only a handful of ro0und oil filled coils do the same, and they were "new defective".

A decade ago, most of the quality, major name coils, and OEM units, round, HEI, epoxy, oil filled, were made at Andover Industries, Andover, Indiana. These were top notch quality units, all of them. Then, the first company decided to move their coil production to Mexico, to a company named "Pro-Bobbin (it should be noted that the windings layers inside a coil are "wound", on a "bobbin" something like a bobbin on a sewing machine). Pro-Bobbin was somewhat lax in their insulation specifications, and, the windings insulation literally fell apart, and caused the layer shorting we saw with many MSD Blaster II and III, BLACK and CHROME oil filled coils. These MSD coils really didn't get much better over the last decade, and have killed many, many MSD, HEI and other electronic ignition systems. Then, Accel took their coil production to Taiwan, and all went bad as well. Mallory and others did the same, with the same dismal results.

Now, most of these epoxy and oil filled coils are made in China, but, with a twist. There are actually three companies there that produce coils, for different others. PRO-FORM, MSD, Accel, and most of the other companies have their coils made in one of the two good companies there. PRO-COMP, and other bottom of the barrel companies have theirs made in the worst factory in China.

I found this information out the hard way, with ongoing testing because of failures with different coils along the way in my business, small body HEI's that use remote, oil filled coils, and from many others having coil/module issues with their large diameter, epoxy coil in cap HEI's.

Testing both coils, and, HEI modules. It is no longer adequate to test these parts by resistance values only. YES, of the coil, and/or module are completely dead, resistance tests should show it. There is also a 12 volt light test fort HEI modules, works for only part of the module, can read good, but the part that doesn't get tested, can be completely failed, and you will never know it. The ONLY credible way to test both coils, and HEI modules is to find a parts store that has an off vehicle tester, and let 'er rip. Don't let the tech in the store just test for 5 seconds, then tell you its OK, make the tech leave the coil/module running for quite a while, get them to operating temps. It is n o longer acceptable to simply test a cold electrical component, let it get to temperature, as this is where some of these components actually fail, not dead cold.

So-

"One thing I'll add is NEVER use a chrome coil... they're oil-filled, and they build up heat in them. The black coil helps dissipate that heat, while the chrome coil reflects the heat back into the coil.

I've seen a few "vapor lock" issues that turned out to be a chrome coil issue.",

-is extremely erroneous, extremely misleading, and, just plain incorrect. Oil filled coils cannot, and do not "vapor lock". And, in testing both BLACK and CHROME oil filled, and, BLACK and CHROME epoxy filled coils with accurate heat detection devices, there has been less than 5 deg/F. temperature variance between the two families of coils respectively, black epoxy to chrome epoxy family, black oil filled to chrome oil filled family. A large difference was seen between epoxy filled, and, oil filled coil families, on average, oil filled coils read 30 degrees hotter on the jacket temperatures, indicating they were dissipating heat more efficiently than the epoxy filled coils were. All coils tested, no matter the jacket finish and media, were of the exact same ohms rating.

The ONLY reason an HEI coil is epoxy filled, is to ensure they do not leak oil into the under cap area of the distributor, NOT because epoxy filling works better than oil filling, period. Just before there was the large diameter, coil in cap HEI, there was an attempt to build a smaller diameter coil n cap electronic distributor, by GM. they were used on both Oldsmobile, and Pontiac, and were called the 'UNITIZED IGNITION". They weren't popular, and had a lot of fairly serious issues and problems, including module failures (the modules on Unitized ignitions were not HEI type, but, a lesser output TCBI - transistor controlled breaker-less inductive).

As far as a coil failing, the more reasonable thought would be exactly where, and how well it was made, NOT the outer jacket finish. Let me point out that ignition coil jackets are not painted inside them, they would have to use an electrical paint called GE Glyptal, and it just isn't done. Yes, black will help to leach heat away from certain areas, but far more realistic is, black catches and holds heat to itself. Ever wonder why most early turbocharger exhaust systems were/are chrome plated? To leach the heat out of them. Today, they use stainless steel tubing, an even better heat leach than chroming.

Make of this what you will, but, that's the way it works in the real world.

[vidman]

I stoped using under cap coils a long time ago like dave said (above post) and have not had a failure on any round oil filled coil yet. Maybe I have been lucky. Yes you are right about finding parts made in the good ole U.S.OF A.

[Jeff La]

Thanks for the info Dave

[61K10]

glad you came back----so no coils are made in the usa? I shouldn't have to ask as not much is made here anymore.

[HEI451]

Andover still makes new coils, mostly for the OEM, distributor-less systems. The so-called name brand "performance" coils are almost exclusively made in China, in one, or another of those 3 factories. One good coil line is the "Master Pro" at O'Reilly. China made but, from the best one of the 3 factories, NOT the worst, like PRO-COMP uses.

Reports to me have indicated MSD Blaster is still an issue, even though production went from Mexico to China, Mallory, China, Accel is still DOA, PerTronix epoxy, China, PerTronix oil filled, still USA, but not Andover.

I am not "back", only posting known fact.

[tincan1966]

good info HEI451-
I can attest to the Pro-Comp issues. I bought a distributor(electronic) and a coil thru a wholesaler I use because of price. The distributor never worked right,acted similiar to a cross-firing issue, and finally, after opening it up- realized it was wired wrong internally. It had wires pinched beneath the module which cut the wires and they were grounding to the body of the distributor. The retaining screws weren't even tight. Not sure about the coil, we sold the vehicle after only about 2000 miles- not sure about how long it'll last.