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02-20-2013, 10:57 PM | #1 |
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Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
OK, since I am striking out on finding a way to add disc brakes to the closed knuckle, I am seeking an open knuckle. I have a line on a mid 70's set-up from a Chevy, from the looks of them it is a pretty easy swap. The shock mounts and spring perches look like they are where they need to be. I'm sure that there are plenty of you who have done this swap. I am looking for knowledge here, what do I need to know about this swap? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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02-20-2013, 11:27 PM | #2 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
A 72 K/10 dana 44 will swap right in place, then of course you need the master cylinder,prop valve and booster.
I have a disc brake dana 44 in my shop and am going to do this swap on mine this summer. Posted via Mobile Device |
02-21-2013, 06:58 AM | #3 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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02-21-2013, 07:51 AM | #4 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Any chevy solid axle will work, the corp10 bolt (79 and up?) has a slightly offset pumpkin but still no issue. The issue is the steering linkage, brake booster, prop valve additions that have to be done. Not a big issue just more to consider. My 68 has a corp10 bolt now, nothing else connected though. Don't forget to match gear ratios with your rear
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The Garage: 1968 K-10 SWB - "Project Money Pit" 1996 Z-71 - "huntin rig" 1969 C-10 LWB (SOLD) "Project flip that truck or else" 1993 Passport, F@rd 1-ton (SOLD)"Project Cousin Eddie" My Garage Build "The 1,000 footer" |
02-21-2013, 09:27 AM | #5 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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02-21-2013, 11:37 AM | #6 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Like msgross said any GM solid front axle up till 87 will bolt right in, just make sure it matches the rears ratio. As far as steering it will be a bolt in as well as long as you have the 3 piece draglink ( a short tire rod, a long tie rod and a sleeve), all 3 are available at any auto parts store. I always fab up new front brake lines when I do this swap, the frame fitting for the brake hose on drum brake trucks exits the frame farther back than on disc brakes, this makes for a longer than stock brake hose to be used. Instead I run the new lines with the exit in the frame farther up the frame almost inline with the caliper, I've also used the 73 up frame bracket for the line fitting, this moves the fitting out away from the frame and even closer to the caliper about 1.5" and works really well on lifted trucks plus has the correct hole for the caliper style brake hose you will need.
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02-21-2013, 12:24 PM | #7 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
The steering issues were as stated, your original truck was manual steering with a solid drage link to the knuckle. You could also think of a power steering upgrade at the same time. The frame probably isn't "dimpled" for a power steering box but you can get adapter plates for that.
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The Garage: 1968 K-10 SWB - "Project Money Pit" 1996 Z-71 - "huntin rig" 1969 C-10 LWB (SOLD) "Project flip that truck or else" 1993 Passport, F@rd 1-ton (SOLD)"Project Cousin Eddie" My Garage Build "The 1,000 footer" |
02-21-2013, 12:34 PM | #8 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Thanks guys! So the steering arm on the left is a simple swap from the old diff as well? MSGROSS - I did upgrade the power steering a while back while I was driving it. Now it has become a complete restoration. The frame was dimpled so we are "all good" there. I think I used the same drag link from the manual set-up but changed out the pitman arm.
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02-21-2013, 01:26 PM | #9 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
probably just need a new drag link then... the steering arms on the axles are different.
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The Garage: 1968 K-10 SWB - "Project Money Pit" 1996 Z-71 - "huntin rig" 1969 C-10 LWB (SOLD) "Project flip that truck or else" 1993 Passport, F@rd 1-ton (SOLD)"Project Cousin Eddie" My Garage Build "The 1,000 footer" |
02-22-2013, 08:51 AM | #10 |
69 K20
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Hey guys, one more question - Are the axles the same on both the open and closed knuckle?
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02-22-2013, 03:41 PM | #11 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
you mean the internal axle shafts? No idea since I never cracked mine open...
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The Garage: 1968 K-10 SWB - "Project Money Pit" 1996 Z-71 - "huntin rig" 1969 C-10 LWB (SOLD) "Project flip that truck or else" 1993 Passport, F@rd 1-ton (SOLD)"Project Cousin Eddie" My Garage Build "The 1,000 footer" |
02-22-2013, 10:54 PM | #12 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Axle shafts are totally different, about the only parts that will interchange is ring and pinion, carrier.
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1972 C/30 133" W.B. C&C 1970 GMC 3500 157" W.B. single wheel C&C |
02-23-2013, 11:17 AM | #13 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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02-23-2013, 11:31 AM | #14 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
I thought that you had to get a housing that has a similar gear ratio, 3.73 and lower or 4.09 and higher. Any truth to that?
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02-23-2013, 01:42 PM | #15 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Hello, Great Build! On your disc set up it looks as though your caliper brackets are bent right there on the edge of the ear, it’s been awhile since I’ve run the D52 brake set up, but this was a common issue, they get bent when moving the axle around without the calipers on them… maybe, and I don’t think your issue is your closed knuckle housing, because imo the spindle out is where your difference is, from the pic you have the spindle on first and then the caliper bracket and this is correct, so if the brackets are not bent then it would be somewhere in the hub/rotor spindle area, the spindle that you are using is from the disc set up correct? Just something to think about… Again Great build!
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02-23-2013, 07:14 PM | #16 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Great info guys!
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02-23-2013, 10:34 PM | #17 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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My latest question - does that bearing thing-a-ma-bobber come out? And if so, can the spindle have a bushing pressed in to make it like the 69 spindle? That is the only case where I think that the closed knuckle will work. Axles are different so that's not an option. The picture with the caliper mounted is with the 72 spindle, on a 72 hub with no axle shaft in the housing. |
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02-24-2013, 03:24 AM | #18 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
It sounds like you're on a good track here. I hope you can get this figured out.
That bearing in the '72 spindle will come out. And if you can find, or make, or have made a bushing the right size it will press in just fine. I don't know the difference between the closed vs open axle shafts, but would it be possible to mate the closed('69) inner shaft with the open('72) stub shaft? (according to the rockauto catalog they use the same u-joint, but that may be wrong.) Then you could leave the needle bearing in the '72 spindle and have the matching stub shaft with it. |
02-24-2013, 10:31 AM | #19 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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02-28-2013, 11:59 PM | #20 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Well I took the spindles to the 4x4 shop in town and he suggests that I take the axles to a machine shop and have them turned down to fit the 72 spindles. The amount of material to be cut is probably a few hundredths of an inch. Does anyone see a problem with this approach?
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03-01-2013, 07:42 PM | #21 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
I guess it would depend upon how much "interference" there is, and how much would need to be removed?
Personally, I would rather see the bushing turned (enlarged) if there is enough material there to do it. Modifying something like the axle makes it harder to get a replacement if you would happen to break one. You are more likely to need a new axle someday than the bushing. I am always careful about which part gets modified when multiple parts need to fit together.
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03-02-2013, 03:51 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
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You're so close, man. |
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04-06-2013, 12:44 AM | #23 |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Did you ever get these bushings made for your spindles or did you end up turning the axles down?
I have a 1962 GMC K1000 that had disk brakes installed by the previous owner. The install had some issues, namely the bearing/bushing issue you're having to deal with. I got in touch with R&P 4WD in Oregon and they got me squared away. What I ended up doing is aquiring a second set of outer axle stubs to have modified to fit the later model bearing spindle. It was explained to me that only a very minimal amount had to be removed and the hardening process they due on that part of the axle stub extends quite a bit deeper than what was removed so no issues should be found. I plan on going back to drum brakes to make the truck original, but turning the axle stubs has been done. -Jonathon
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04-07-2013, 11:57 AM | #24 | |
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Re: Closed knuckle to open knuckle Dana 44 questions
Quote:
Here is what I ended up doing for mine. Like I said, I located an extra pair of outer stubs for a closed knuckle front driving axle, then sent those off to a machine shop to have them turned down a hair in order to fit the later model spindle with bearing rather than the bronze bushing. I will likely end making the truck original and reinstalling drum brakes, but I had this done just in case I couldn't find parts or decided to keep the disks. As you can see, the spindle bearing fits just fine on the stub after work has been done on it. I hope this helps. The other picture shows what i found when I originally took mine apart. The outer axle stub was jammed into the bearing and while it would spin/rotate just fine, the stub was actuall stuck within the spindle bearing and had jammed the bearing pretty far into the spindle when the previous mechanic made the swap. Jonathon
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