Need a little electrical guidance

[scherpich]

For my '67 C10 350, I just recently bought a COMPLETE Painless kit and a 1-wire 100-Amp GM alternator. I have begun my wiring process, which is pretty easy so far, but I'm at the point where I should be able to start the truck, but I have no luck. It may have something to do with the huge 70-amp fuse that Painless recommends you put inline with your alternator wire, but I am having issues. I have HEI, as well as a remote starter solenoid mounted on the sidewall for the headers/heat sink issue. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with this, but I am unsure how to wire this thing. Does anyone have a diagram? I have followed the painless instructions, but they are not too helpful with the whole remote starter solenoid thing. Again, it's

HEI
1-wire alternator
Brand new Painless kit
Remote starter solenoid

Thanks!

[Longhorn 70]

What does it do/don't when you try to start?
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[scherpich]

I have an electric fuel pump, which turns on, but there is no click, no sounds, nothing. I tested my relay, and it's getting no power out of it when I turn the key, but I am not sure I have it wired right. 1 post gets batt, and alt, and the other goes straight to starter.

[ItsRandy]

I had a similar problem when I tried to start my truck (Painless harness). I had forgotten to hook up my neutral safety switch. You can put a jumper wire in the purple wire(s) for the switch.

[scherpich]

Nope, I made sure that is connected- in fact, the harness I have has the jumper wires already made, and they are hooked in properly to the 2 side by side parallel connectors at the base of the steering column.

[ItsRandy]

Is the safety switch adjusted correctly? Is the purple wire connected to the control terminal of the solenoid?

[Critter]

Originally Posted by scherpich

I have HEI, as well as a remote starter solenoid mounted on the sidewall for the headers/heat sink issue. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with this, but I am unsure how to wire this thing.
Thanks!

For one thing the remote solenoid is doing absolutely nothing to help with heat soak. Your factory starter still has to utilize it's built in solenoid to energize the starter motor AND to throw the gear towards the nose of the starter. So by putting in the addition remote solenoid all you have done is added another "switch" to the circuit and heat is still soaking into your starter solenoid. Remove the remote solenoid and run these wires...

1)Large battery cable from the + side of the batt to the main lug on the starter wire. (the main lug is the large one on the starter solenoid that DOESN'T have a tab going into the starter motor itself)

2)The wire that runs from you ignition key to "start" the truck will go to the little lug on the starter solenoid that has an "S" beside it, NOT to the little one that has an "R" on it, you might have to get real close and clean the solenoid off to see the R and the S on it. The wire you need should be purple, if you are unsure of this wire let us know and we can help you further with it.

3)a decent sized wire (10 ga if I remember right) from the lug on the back of the one wire alternator directly to the + side of the battery.

4)large battery cable from the NEG- side of the battery to a good ground point on the engine, usually there is a large bolt on the alt mount that will work great for this. Also run ground strap from this main cable down to the frame just to make sure you have a good ground circuit.

Last there will be a bundle of other power wires that feed the rest of the truck (dash, lights, radio, etc). That bundle will either go down to the main starter lug OR to the 12v+ of the battery. Either way it needs to have 12v+ all the time.

If you feel like you still have a heat soak problem on your starter, get one of these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/oer-361443/overview/

[VetteVet]

Since you have headers you will most likely have heat problems. Leave the remote solenoid in place and wire it like I show in this thread and you should be fine.

.......http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=574411

[Longhorn 70]

If I understand this correctly, nothing happens when you hit the key. No starter engage. Try this.

Jump accross the remote solenoid from the Battery IN to the S terminal. Use a pretty hefty wire. That should clunk. If it does, does the starter engage? If not, did you jumper the S terminal on the starter terminal to the battery in there? If you do not hear the remote solenoid engage, did you verify grounds?

[cdowns]

the single most misunderstood concept ot electricity is the ground circuit and the cause of stuff not workin right

[Critter]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Since you have headers you will most likely have heat problems. Leave the remote solenoid in place and wire it like I show in this thread and you should be fine.

.......http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=574411

VetteVet I respect the heck out of you on this forum, but I see no way that a remote starter solenoid in this sense can help with heat soak on a factory starter. The factory starter and solenoid will still be exposed to the EXACT same amount of heat with or without the remote solenoid AND the OEM unit still has to do its EXACT same function, i.e. electrically engage the starter motor and throw out the starter gear. How on earth is the remote solenoid helping any of this???

I see on the other thread where you said "alleviating the high current draw through the ignition key switch circuit" which I will agree is helpful to the key circuit to some degree, but once again, assuming he has a good key signal to the solenoid how is heat soak prevented?

Originally Posted by cdowns

the single most misunderstood concept ot electricity is the ground circuit and the cause of stuff not workin right

Couldn't agree more...

[scherpich]

Critter, I agree with you on this, I have found that I still have heat soak issues even though I am using the remote solenoid. I may just get a mini starter to deal with heat soak.

However, now I have fixed the starting issue. I can get the engine to turn over!!

But it won't catch- I can see fuel, but I think spark or neutral safety switch may be the issue. Using the painless harness, there are 2 spade connectors for the neutral safety, but there are 4 spots on the switch on the column, 2 are parallel to each other and 2 are at right angles. The 2 right angle spots are the reverse lights (I think) but there is no connector on my new harness for them. Plus, how do I know if I am wiring the parallel (purple wires) in the right order?

[Critter]

Originally Posted by scherpich

Critter, I agree with you on this, I have found that I still have heat soak issues even though I am using the remote solenoid. I may just get a mini starter to deal with heat soak.

However, now I have fixed the starting issue. I can get the engine to turn over!!

But it won't catch- I can see fuel, but I think spark or neutral safety switch may be the issue. Using the painless harness, there are 2 spade connectors for the neutral safety, but there are 4 spots on the switch on the column, 2 are parallel to each other and 2 are at right angles. The 2 right angle spots are the reverse lights (I think) but there is no connector on my new harness for them. Plus, how do I know if I am wiring the parallel (purple wires) in the right order?

I can't picture in my head at the moment the connectors and pins so I'm not much help there, but what you can do is take a test light and check to make sure you have 12v at the HEI wire (I am assuming you have an HEI distributor, if not let us know) as it goes into the distributor cap. If you have 12v there then the engine will fire, if you don't it won't.


Also after thinking more about VetteVets comments and other posts about the starter solenoid I think I understand where we disagree. When I say I want to help/reduce/stop heat soak I mean I actually want reduce the amount of heat that makes its way into the starter/solenoid. Examples would be insulating the starter with wrap, putting a heat shield, removing the headers, etc. I maintain that the remote mounted solenoid does NOTHING for this. What it does do is help OVERCOME the effects of heat soak by keeping the higher amperage draw off your key circuit. So in a sense it helps overcome the effect, but it does nothing to treat the cause of the problem. If I am wrong please let me know. Once again, not trying to be disrespectful, just trying to make sense of a nagging issue many people including myself have dealt with.

[Longhorn 70]

To test the HEI? Simple just run a jumper wire from the battery's anode ( + terminal) to the BAT terminal on the distributor cap. If the HEI is working properly and you are timed correctly, it should start when you turn the key.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by scherpich

Critter, I agree with you on this, I have found that I still have heat soak issues even though I am using the remote solenoid. I may just get a mini starter to deal with heat soak.

You still have heat soak issues but the starter will crank the engine over.Clear this up for us.

However, now I have fixed the starting issue. I can get the engine to turn over!!

But it won't catch- I can see fuel, but I think spark or neutral safety switch may be the issue. The neutral safety switch has nothing to do with the ignition, it only controls the starter solenoid. Using the painless harness, there are 2 spade connectors for the neutral safety, but there are 4 spots on the switch on the column, 2 are parallel to each other and 2 are at right angles. The 2 right angle spots are the reverse lights (I think) Yes that's right. but there is no connector on my new harness for them. Plus, how do I know if I am wiring the parallel (purple wires) in the right order? They can go on either terminal, all the switch does is make contact between them.[/QUOTE]




Also after thinking more about VetteVets comments and other posts about the starter solenoid I think I understand where we disagree. When I say I want to help/reduce/stop heat soak I mean I actually want reduce the amount of heat that makes its way into the starter/solenoid. Examples would be insulating the starter with wrap, putting a heat shield, removing the headers, etc. I maintain that the remote mounted solenoid does NOTHING for this. What it does do is help OVERCOME the effects of heat soak by keeping the higher amperage draw off your key circuit.

What it does is to eliminate the voltage drop that the long purple wire and the ignition switch cause so that there is more voltage for the solenoid. If you measure the voltage at the S terminal you might find as little as 10 volts there and with the heat soak resistance in the solenoid wiring. the solenoid just won't engage. If it does engage with a strong click and the starter won't turn, then the starter windings are heat soaked and nothing will help that except a jump with another vehicle or running with two batteries. Given that the starter works normally when it's cold.

So in a sense it helps overcome the effect, but it does nothing to treat the cause of the problem. If I am wrong please let me know. No you are correct.

Once again, not trying to be disrespectful, just trying to make sense of a nagging issue many people including myself have dealt with. I always try to provide accurate information and welcome any questions or debate. I find that I learn more that way.

[quote=Critter;6019884]VetteVet I respect the heck out of you on this forum, but I see no way that a remote starter solenoid in this sense can help with heat soak on a factory starter. The factory starter and solenoid will still be exposed to the EXACT same amount of heat with or without the remote solenoid AND the OEM unit still has to do its EXACT same function, i.e. electrically engage the starter motor and throw out the starter gear. How on earth is the remote solenoid helping any of this???

I see on the other thread where you said "alleviating the high current draw through the ignition key switch circuit" which I will agree is helpful to the key circuit to some degree, but once again, assuming he has a good key signal to the solenoid how is heat soak prevented?
You've covered that already

Originally Posted by cdowns

the single most misunderstood concept ot electricity is the ground circuit and the cause of stuff not workin right

No truer words..................

[scherpich]

Thanks for all the replies, I was missing a wire from the ignition, and my distributor was not at TDC. So, now my motor is happily rumbling away after 8 months of inactivity (and some fresh gas!)

[Longhorn 70]

Great news!! Good job finding it.