Help with fuel system design for LS1 install

[laynrockers]

Thanks for the info guys

[hector93888]

i got one question i got my set up used the adpters on fuel rail and filter all to 6an fittings my question is i got a some black braided hoses at work it say 5/16 on it is that the same thing a s 6an hose would i be able to use this hose or would i need to buy a 6an hose would hate to do that got free 20 feet of this hose.lol

[68GMCCustom]

that kit should do it with 20'...I would think...with a few more fittings for more terminations. There would be 3 or 4 sections depending on design.

Maybe this has been asked.....but I see some pics of systems with and some without a fuel filter before the pump. I'd be afraid of pump damage due to debris w/o a filter before the pump...then to the vette reg/filter (or just reg. or filter, or nothing) behind the pump. With a new tank one might get lucky, but with an old fuel tank...look out!

Thoughts?

[brossow]

Originally Posted by hector93888

i got one question i got my set up used the adpters on fuel rail and filter all to 6an fittings my question is i got a some black braided hoses at work it say 5/16 on it is that the same thing a s 6an hose would i be able to use this hose or would i need to buy a 6an hose would hate to do that got free 20 feet of this hose.lol

Just because it has a "braided" outer cover on it doesn't mean that it's pressure rated for fuel injection. Be sure to find out what pressure it can handle before you just assume that it's up to the task. It could be low-pressure rubber fuel line with a fancy braided cover for show. A burst fuel line could destroy your project in seconds -- not worth the risk just to save a few bucks, so check it out before you make a decision.

[BR3W CITY]

Maybe this has been asked.....but I see some pics of systems with and some without a fuel filter before the pump. I'd be afraid of pump damage due to debris w/o a filter before the pump...then to the vette reg/filter (or just reg. or filter, or nothing) behind the pump. With a new tank one might get lucky, but with an old fuel tank...look out!

Running a pre-filter is fine, but because of the amount of pressure we run (pressure actually being suction when before the pump) there is a tendency for pre-filters not to have a large enough pass-through and cause restrictions. You can get a large-mesh pre filter to keep rust or in-tank garbage from getting to your pump, although most fine debris that would get in a tank would pass through the impellers on the pump and do no real damage.

You'd have to have something the size of a BB or so to actually damage the impeller.

[High ho silverado]

I'm curious about the sender attachment that was asked earlier, on the older senders how are the hoses being attached, I was thinking of flaring the lines and using an fittings to braided hose, haven't seen any picks of this and was jus curious, ill b using a factory sending unit for an 87 tank with my pump, jus curious how others are doing this, glock didn't cover that in his section, jus that he used 87 tanks, also curious what pumps he used in that set up too. Thanks for any help.
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[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by High ho silverado

I'm curious about the sender attachment that was asked earlier, on the older senders how are the hoses being attached, I was thinking of flaring the lines and using an fittings to braided hose, haven't seen any picks of this and was jus curious, ill b using a factory sending unit for an 87 tank with my pump, jus curious how others are doing this, glock didn't cover that in his section, jus that he used 87 tanks, also curious what pumps he used in that set up too. Thanks for any help.
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As far as attaching the fuel line and the return lines to the sending unit, I just used regular fuel injection rated hose clamps. I used them in the fuel filter/regulator too.

I used an 87 sending unit, which is already fuel injected, so the in-tank pump I used was just a simple R&R. The pump part # is listed in my thread..... somewhere. Lol. It's an OEM AC Delco pump. And those OEM pumps have been working fine with zero issues.

Now, if you are using 86 and earlier sending units, you will be better off using an external pump.
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[High ho silverado]

It's an 87 sender, I swapped the truck to tbi when I first put it together and put a brand new 87 tank and sender in it. I didn't think the stock 87 fuel pump would put out the 60 psi I would need for the 6.0, I was gona see if walbro made a direct fit that put out enuff pressure, I had figured that's what u were using, also not to sidetrack the thread but I realy need to find longtubes that will work on a four wheel drive other than dt's. Thanks for the help by the way and I followed ur Fred build very closely, it is really close to what I'm planning only in a four wheel drive. Great tips keep up the great work.
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[glock35ipsc]

The 87 pump won't, but the oem pump I used does. I don't remember the part number right off, EP-241 or something like that. $60 or so. Look back through my thread, there is a full list of parts and numbers and where I bought everything from.
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[High ho silverado]

Thanks bob, another useful tip, ur the man. When I get every part figured out I'm gona start a thread, I'm even gona do my own wiring harness, possibly do my own ecm if I can figure out which program to run, I'm trying to get the hptuners thing going but I haven't had enuff time to get it done yet. Don't know how many people would be interested in it but we will c. Again thanks for all the info!
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[yossarian19]

What are people doing as far as vent / rollover valves?
I'm retro-ing a Camaro LS1 pump into a 1970 Mustang tank, not sure what I need to do to keep air moving appropriately in / out of the tank.

[68GMCCustom]

for an older tank a vented cap?

those that have new custom tanks generally have a vent/roll over valve installed from the tank builder....least mine did.

[Roostboy102]

What filter are you people running with the return style system? Am I thinking right to use a 97 Vette filter?

[BR3W CITY]

Earls in-line -8AN fuel filter. Just make sure whatever you get is rated for fuel injection levels of pressure.

[Roostboy102]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Earls in-line -8AN fuel filter. Just make sure whatever you get is rated for fuel injection levels of pressure.

I saw there's an earls with a max psi of 80 with barbed fittings which is what I'm looking for... Or that vette one...
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[TypeSL2]

I am moving my fuel tank from the cab to under the bed and plan to do a 6.0 Swap later on down the road. I have a lot of stuff to do the swap, but not all of it. My question is, do I need to do anything to the tank to prep it for the LQ swap, or can I run it like it comes. I need to know very soon because I am swapping the tanks out very soon and want to do it right the first time. I really don't want to have to take the tank out later if I don't have to.

James

[ChevyCruizer]

What tank do you have? Is the pump an internal or external? Is your tank set up for EFI (does it have baffles). After that it will come down to fuel supply and return lines designed for the higher pressure. The tank I got was just a carb version and it has not been hard, but just extra work to get it set up for a LSx motor. If I would do it again I would just get the tank designed for EFI with the proper pump in the tank.

Originally Posted by TypeSL2

I am moving my fuel tank from the cab to under the bed and plan to do a 6.0 Swap later on down the road. I have a lot of stuff to do the swap, but not all of it. My question is, do I need to do anything to the tank to prep it for the LQ swap, or can I run it like it comes. I need to know very soon because I am swapping the tanks out very soon and want to do it right the first time. I really don't want to have to take the tank out later if I don't have to.

James

[yossarian19]

Originally Posted by TypeSL2

I am moving my fuel tank from the cab to under the bed and plan to do a 6.0 Swap later on down the road. I have a lot of stuff to do the swap, but not all of it. My question is, do I need to do anything to the tank to prep it for the LQ swap, or can I run it like it comes. I need to know very soon because I am swapping the tanks out very soon and want to do it right the first time. I really don't want to have to take the tank out later if I don't have to.

James

There are a few factors involved here. I'll try and cover all the bases, but I haven't finished my coffee yet...
The 6.0 (or any LS) swap takes either a factory style pump that lives in-tank or a Walbro external that will give you 60 psi at the rails.
The Walbro external pump can suck fuel from the bottom of the tank, no mods needed. It is cheaper than a (new) factory style fuel sender, doesn't come with a level sender, is easier to replace and will not generally live as long as a fuel pump that is submerged in fuel. Heat is the main reason for that, vibration possibly another, quality also possible. OEM = King for reliability, most of the time.
The factory style basket pump will need a hole cut in the top of the tank & adapter ring welded to the tank to bolt it down. Vetteworks makes pump adapter kits that run around 75 bucks shipped and use the readily-available LS1 camaro fuel sender. Now for the catch: depending on tank depth, you may not be able to run the Camaro fuel module (pump + gauge sender) on less than 1/2 or 1/4 a tank of gas. It's about a 10" tall sender, so check that against your tank & see what's going to work.
Another consideration in your fuel setup is whether your motor will have a return line at the fuel rail or not. I think up until 2004 the truck motors all had a return line at the rail. After that, the returns were closer to the tank. Location of the return line is going to dictate your filter setup - camaro LS1 or 2004 Corvette "C5" filter. Either way, you'll need a return line on top of the tank.
A lot of guys, including me, use the '71 Mustang 22 gallon tank. Honestly, I wouldn't reccomend it. Any money I saved has long gone out the window in chopping on my frame to make it fit & fiddling with spacers & **** to mount it. I have long wished I'd gone with a custom for-the-truck-I'm-putting-it-in tank for $400, drilled 4 holes & been done with it. I'd have a filler on the rear fender, a more-stock frame & been done with that part of it.
Anyway, you've got options. One of them is to get a return line on top of the tank before you install it, put a line on the return that you can reach, tape it off & connect it when you get to the 6.0 swap, using a Walbro thats taking fuel off the bottom of the tank same as your carb. Just make sure you update fuel lines to handle the increased pressure.

[TypeSL2]

That is great info yossarian. That sounds very similar with what I had gathered so far. I need to measure the height of my TBSS pump module and see if I can get that to work. I don't remember off the top of my head if the fuel rail I have has the return or not. Something I can find out tonight. I am going to bookmark this page so I have all of that. Thanks for the quick answer. Hopefully that will help other people also along the way.

James

[brossow]

Dragging out an old thread of mine....

Was just reading a thread on another site about electric fuel pumps and everyone there is saying that electric pumps MUST be located below the level of the fuel tank. As you can see in the picture below, mine is nearly at the top of the tank. There's a picture of a similar setup early in this thread where the pump is also mounted in the frame rail like mine, and I've seen similar elsewhere as well, so I want to assume that they're working fine, but this other thread has me needing to at least double-check. In the thread I was reading I think they were talking about carbureted setups rather than FI; not sure if that makes a different since FI will always be pressurized. What do you all think? Thanks to circumstances beyond my control, my '72 project is on hold but I want to be sure that I'm not doing something stupid when I get back to it.

Thanks,
Brent

Originally Posted by brossow

You can see and read about what I ended up doing about halfway down page 12 in my build thread, starting at post 292 (link). Here are a few pics from that thread:

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by brossow

Dragging out an old thread of mine....

Was just reading a thread on another site about electric fuel pumps and everyone there is saying that electric pumps MUST be located below the level of the fuel tank. As you can see in the picture below, mine is nearly at the top of the tank. There's a picture of a similar setup early in this thread where the pump is also mounted in the frame rail like mine, and I've seen similar elsewhere as well, so I want to assume that they're working fine, but this other thread has me needing to at least double-check. In the thread I was reading I think they were talking about carbureted setups rather than FI; not sure if that makes a different since FI will always be pressurized. What do you all think? Thanks to circumstances beyond my control, my '72 project is on hold but I want to be sure that I'm not doing something stupid when I get back to it.

Thanks,
Brent

I believe the basic premise is that your pump is designed to PUSH fuel, not PULL it... While it may work, it may have a slightly decreased life expectancy if it needs to prime the pump each time. By prime, I mean to pull the fuel from the bottom of the tank up to the height of the pump...

[68GMCCustom]

Mines had a carb pump and now efi pump...mounted on the frame...no issues so far.

[WickedDirtBag]

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[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by chevy72blu

Just put in an order for (hopefully) all of my stuff. Man these fittings get pricey. Im sure that I am missing a few items, but I wanted to get the bulk of it and buy more fittings locally as I need them. Im running a 98 LS1 with returnless rail

Heres my list so far:

WIX-33737 regulator/filter
Summit SUM-PUMPKIT1 -6AN kit (20ft, includes 3 adapters, 2 straight, 1 90 and clamps)
Summit SUM-230406 -4AN 6 ft kit (for return)
SUM-220490 straight end (-4an for return)
RUS-660060 3/8 NPT to -4AN (for return)
(2) SUM-220690 straight ends
(2) SUM-220687 90 ends
RUS-644123 for vette filter
RUS-644113 for vette filter
RUS-640940 for vette filter
RUS-640850 for fuel rail

Anyone see any problems?

Does anyone have the cost of these items listed above.

I need to add the 87 fuel tank & sender along with the fuel pump for a 97 to this total for my 78

[brossow]

Originally Posted by solidaxel

Does anyone have the cost of these items listed above.

I need to add the 87 fuel tank & sender along with the fuel pump for a 97 to this total for my 78

Those are all Summit part numbers. Should be easy to look up.