Shop Moisture/Condensation

[GASoline71]

How do you guys deal withg moisture and condensation in your shops? Last August the new wife and I moved onto a 3 acre property with a 38x40 foot shop. It's a concrete floor pole barn with metal siding, open ceiling, and some thin foamish type insulation between the siding and the frame. I intend on installing a wood stove in the shop someday. But for now am using kerosene heat.

I know there is a little condensation from using kerosene or propane in the cold... but that's not the concern. What happens is if it gets to freezing or below outside, and I open one of the big rollup doors... it will start "raining" inside the shop in about a half an hour. This is even before I use any heat. It's got to be from the cold rush of air coming in to the shop and acting with the slightly warmer air inside and making a crap ton of moisture. Having to put tarps over the truck, toys, and tools is getting to be a pain in the ass.

I guess I will need to look to insulate the shop better, and even enclose the ceiling as well. But that won't happen for another couple of years. This has been a real downer to the wife and I, since the shop was a big reason we chose the house and property.

I searched the forum, but didn't come up with anything... any idears fellas?

Gary

[dwcsr]

ridge vent the roof so the moisture can get out. They make a vent that you can open and close with a pull chain.

Just curious how much is a crap ton?

[pritch]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Just curious how much is a crap ton?

It's just under a metric a$$ load

As far as the condensation, vents, like's been said, and maybe a fan. Like a cheap box fan up high in one corner to circulate the air.

[flashed]

I have a shop as you described but well insulated and heat with a propane chicken house furnace and have no moisture problems so the insulation may be your answer .

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Just curious how much is a crap ton?

Enough that you have to wear raingear whilst in the shop...

Gary

[dwcsr]

Living where you are I would think presents a unique situation as far as moisture. Try contacting metal building companies in your neck of the woods and see what they say. It shouldn't rain in your garage even a quarter crap ton. You're most likely going to have to vent and insulate to fix the issue or start an indoors science and amusement park. Or change your name to Rainman

[dieseldawg142]

Gary, i live about 2 hrs NE of you (same crap weather!) & have been roofing part time since 7 yrs old, full time since 15 (now 46). there,s different ways (cost etc.) to fix this. a little more info on how your shop is built would be helpful. all buildings must have a transition zone (attic space).if your shop is built with roof trusses & has a insulated ceiling, the attic space should be close to outside temp. ( this is why snow does not melt off a properly insul. & vented roof). if your ceiling is vaulted (open), after your insul. is in (styro, pb6, etc.), you must cross-strap your roof so you have your transition zone. insul. should never be piled, stacked or jammed to the bottom of the roof, you MUST have that air space. then that air space must be vented. if your ceiling is vaulted, like dwcsr says, ridge vent, this will help, but not cure. you will need to remove the roof & cross-strap, or cheap out & cross strap inside & re fasten your insul. to it so you have a transition zone. if it was mine, i would put a ceiling in & insul. it, throw some AF50 roof vents in it ( 1 vent for every 500 sq ft of building space), & change your soffits so you can use vented alum. or vinyl soffit & get a good up draft pull threw your trans. zone (gabel vents would work too). some pic's of what you have would really help, & what you have on your roof right now (metal, shingle, shake etc.)you should fix this, i've pulled off countless roofs with condensation problems, & it will ROT every thing ( if your lucky your wood will only be black)

[ERASER5]

I don't know about "unique" weather, my garage does this every spring and fall. Damp, cool weather, and all my 8 foot lights drip like I hosed them down. Any raw metal gets a coat of rust. Any black tools have to be oiled. Axes, shovels, any gardening tool need sprayed also. I have roof vents, but I still have to run a fan in the window to keep things dry--er. I'm thinking my issue is due to uninsulated block walls.

[dieseldawg142]

think of your truck windshield in the winter or a cold day. you crank on the heat & you get drips of condensation on the inside of the glass, unless you crack a window. same principle applies to buildings. a building should never sweat every fall & spring, when that wet wood dries in the summer, you now have "dry rot" wood with the holding power of pudding. you need to be properly INSULATED & VENTED. caulking some Roofmate insulation to the inside of your brick walls ( or build pony walls in front of the blocks & insulate) & some Turbine ("whirly") vents to pull heated air out of your transition zone will go a long way to curing your damp seasons in your shop. you have to pull that warm air out of your zone

[cdowns]

i've seen buildings with that problem and it was due to a defective or no vapor barrier under the ceement floor

[GASoline71]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

Living where you are I would think presents a unique situation as far as moisture. Try contacting metal building companies in your neck of the woods and see what they say. It shouldn't rain in your garage even a quarter crap ton. You're most likely going to have to vent and insulate to fix the issue or start an indoors science and amusement park. Or change your name to Rainman

I will make a few phone calls and see what some of those cats say Thanks!

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

Gary, i live about 2 hrs NE of you (same crap weather!) & have been roofing part time since 7 yrs old, full time since 15 (now 46). there,s different ways (cost etc.) to fix this. a little more info on how your shop is built would be helpful. all buildings must have a transition zone (attic space).if your shop is built with roof trusses & has a insulated ceiling, the attic space should be close to outside temp. ( this is why snow does not melt off a properly insul. & vented roof). if your ceiling is vaulted (open), after your insul. is in (styro, pb6, etc.), you must cross-strap your roof so you have your transition zone. insul. should never be piled, stacked or jammed to the bottom of the roof, you MUST have that air space. then that air space must be vented. if your ceiling is vaulted, like dwcsr says, ridge vent, this will help, but not cure. you will need to remove the roof & cross-strap, or cheap out & cross strap inside & re fasten your insul. to it so you have a transition zone. if it was mine, i would put a ceiling in & insul. it, throw some AF50 roof vents in it ( 1 vent for every 500 sq ft of building space), & change your soffits so you can use vented alum. or vinyl soffit & get a good up draft pull threw your trans. zone (gabel vents would work too). some pic's of what you have would really help, & what you have on your roof right now (metal, shingle, shake etc.)you should fix this, i've pulled off countless roofs with condensation problems, & it will ROT every thing ( if your lucky your wood will only be black)

I will post up some pics of the shop and where it's at on the property a little later. It also sits back on the corner of the property and shaded by trees. So even during the summer when everything is dry... it still feels cool and slightly damp in the shop.

Originally Posted by cdowns

i've seen buildings with that problem and it was due to a defective or no vapor barrier under the ceement floor

I will check into that as well...

Gary

[NONHOG]

What do you have for insulation now? Is your ceiling the bottom of the metal roofing?
Just curious how its set up.
Could moisture be build up from your heater then cold air rush causing condensation? I dunno?

I have an issue with the house garage (pretty much same climate) but not in the shop. I made darn sure they used a vapor barrier when pouring the shop floor. Some day I'll tear out the house garage slab and redo properly.

[dieseldawg142]

warm air holds more water vapor than cold air. condensation is caused when this moisture laden warm air contacts a cool surface, the air is cooled to the point it can no longer hold the water vapor. this is known as dewpoint, water begins to drop out of the air & is seen as condensation on surfaces. condensation is more of a seasonal thing, in cold weather, windows are shut, doors are draft proofed, this allows water vapor build up in the building.
the 2 primary ways to combat this is ventilation & improve heating & insulation. a vapor barrier under your concrete would be good, but realisticaly you dont want to rip up your floor

why your shop sweats, no transition zone

proper way to control condensation, transition zone is about the same as outside temps

and if your roof is vaulted, you must do this-cross strapping, now you have a zone for the air

like i said before, dont leave this unchecked, it will destroy your building or at the very least, increase the repair bill

[dieseldawg142]

[QUOTE=NONHOG;5985480]What do you have for insulation now? Is your ceiling the bottom of the metal roofing?
Just curious how its set up.
Could moisture be build up from your heater then cold air rush causing condensation? I dunno?

if you have metal roofing & you can see the metal from inside the building, your roof has no vapor barrier laid down & it will condensate a crap ton

[ERASER5]

I would bet money that there is no vapor barrier undr my concrete. I only have heat when I run the salimander. When I run that, any codensation evaporates in the now warm air. With ablock wall and concrete floor, the garage just stays colder than the outside air and any outside air going in (under the door mostly) is swept up to the vents and cools on the glass bulbs. Once I put the box fan in the window blowing out, the air flow reverses and the warm air from the roof top is swept down and out the window, the condinsation stops. So I usually leave the fan running 24/7 from spring till winter to keep things drier. Someday I will insulate the walls and roof.

[_Ogre]

change to a vented heater like a house furnace. i bought a 100,000 btu house furnace off craigslist that i have used for 8 yrs.
before that i had a propane ready heater, burning an unvented propane heater produces 3 things; heat, co2 and water vapor.
i use to have water puddles in my tool box and on the table saws before changing to a vented heater.

also in the spring when the building is cool and the air outside is warmer and humid
opening the doors to let the heat in also lets all that humidity that condenses on the cool floors and tools.
i usually keep the doors closed and turn on the heater during those days in spring.
you probably have our spring weather all winter, keep the doors closed and turn on the heat

i have my 50x50 shop partitioned of into 3 areas: workshop is 20x30 and is heated all winter. 20x50 with 3 garage doors for parking.
and 30x30 car bay for driving in and working on a vehicle and/or welding area.
i can heat the car bay if needed. all my tools stay in the 20x30 shop space where they are warm and dry year round.

shop/barn is 50x50



parking is 20x50 with a single door into the car bay



20x30 shop area that is insulated and heated (looking into car bay)

[GASoline71]

Well... thanks for all the replies from all you guys. But the deal on this house/shop/property fell through and we are not buying the property after all. So back to a 2 car garage for me!

Gary