Starting issue

[Bill Houghton]

A week or so ago, I was running a bunch of errands in my 1972 3/4 ton Chevy, with fairly new small block engine in it. 65-month-warranty battery, installed in 2011. Everything went fine until the last stop. When I came out from that, the truck wouldn't start. The solenoid would click, but no starting. When the AAA truck came out and put his jumper box on it, we got the same thing initially; then, all at once, it started just fine.

I drove it home, and have started it twice since then with no problem.

Could this be a bad winding in the starter motor? I believe the starter was just transferred over from the old motor, so don't know its age.

If not that, what might it be? Our less mechanical son will be borrowing the truck soon, when he moves into a new place, so I don't want this problem to happen to him.

Any suggestions on diagnosis appreciated.

[WIDESIDE72]

Are you running headers? Chevys are notorious for heat soak problems especially with headers. You might consider pulling the starter and having it bench tested, but its kind of a crap shoot. Next time it does it give it a whack with a hammer. Not the whole truck, just the starter, and or try the old jump from the battery terminal on the starter to the "s" terminal. I keep an old screwsriver in my toolbox for just such an ocassion. I actually start my 67 Massey Ferguson 2200 tractor this way more often than using the key. I grew up on old Farmall Cubs/ A's with no key, just a switch. If it still gives you trouble you might consider the remote solenoid mod. A lot of places sell kits, but its basically a F*rd solenoid and a copper strap to connect the s to battery terminal. This gets the soenoid away from exhaust heat.
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[cdowns]

first thing i would do// i would remove both battery cables and clean all 4ends and where they mount then reinstall cables

[Bill Houghton]

Originally Posted by WIDESIDE72

Are you running headers? Chevys are notorious for heat soak problems especially with headers. You might consider pulling the starter and having it bench tested, but its kind of a crap shoot.

Thanks. No, no headers. This is a basic truck, not much changed from the original except more scars.

I'll have to see if the electrical shops over in the next town can test it for me. There are so few good specialty shops left anymore that bench testing hadn't occurred to me.

[LockDoc]

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Could be a dead spot or bad contact in the ignition switch too....

LockDoc

[rico7769]

Have had a similar issue but only when parked on an incline. Turned out that i just had to push up on the shift lever toward park and it would start. issue was with the contact almost being in reverse instead of park.
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[Ken Davis]

My truck does the same thing it did this with the original engine and now with a 5.3 with a brand new not rebuilt starter. Can this be a bad ignition switch.

[Bill Houghton]

It did turn out to be the starter. Failed again on me, downtown (just half a mile away, in our little town), but terminally. $55 later, I've got a truck that starts.

Comments:

1. My Ace hardware store had some heat shield stuff, 2" wide kind of paper towel material with shiny silver tape to hold it in place, sold for exhaust systems. Based on the advice from the auto parts store, I wrapped the metal body of the solenoid in this material to protect it somewhat from the exhaust header. My son suggests that the blankets hardware stores sell for protecting wood framing when soldering plumbing pipe works, too (held in place with baling wire); the stuff I got was 1/3 the price of the blanket.

2. The solenoid's got three electrical connection points: one for the battery cable and two others marked "S" and "R", apparently, based on location, standing for "Southpaw" and "Right." Not all trucks use all three connecction points, but mine did. All three are stud connections, with nuts holding loop connectors on. The "S" connection is so close to the header on my truck that I had to install the wire with one of the bolts that holds the starter in place out, and the other loose, so I could pivot the starter away from the header. A nutrunner, like a screwdriver but with a socket on the end and a hollow shaft, was quite helpful for these two smaller connections. The instructions that came with the starter cautioned me to torque the battery cable connection to 6 foot-pounds. Good luck! I barely had the room to get a short ratchet in there, much less a torque wrench, so I had to guess on tightness.

3. The insulation on all three wires was absent for varying lengths back from the connectors. When you replace the starter, check this, and be prepared to replace some insulation - shrink-wrap, electrical tape, etc. It's most easily done with the starter out; no working room otherwise.

What Chevrolet was thinking with this design is beyond me. There's enough room in the engine compartment to put a spare motor from a small car in, but they run the header so close to the starter than it's almost touching, making it doggoned hard to replace and ensuring a shorter life for the starter.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

What Chevrolet was thinking with this design is beyond me.

Try driving an old Ford!

[WIDESIDE72]

Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

3. The insulation on all three wires was absent for varying lengths back from the connectors. When you replace the starter, check this, and be prepared to replace some insulation - shrink-wrap, electrical tape, etc. It's most easily done with the starter out; no working room otherwise.

What Chevrolet was thinking with this design is beyond me. There's enough room in the engine compartment to put a spare motor from a small car in, but they run the header so close to the starter than it's almost touching, making it doggoned hard to replace and ensuring a shorter life for the starter.

IMO all of your problems are cauused by the headers. Sure hey look cool and the mfr promises astronomical gains, but personally, after 30 or so years of gear head-ness, I am done with headers. All of the problems you mention above, as well as leaking gaskets to constantly worry with.

Chevy dis not run the header too close to the starter. When factory equipped with the oem ram horn manifolds, you will have none of the issue mentioned above. It was only after the aftermaket/ truck owner decided tha they could "improve" on Gm's design that the problems began.

You might try a set of ram horn manifolds. With a 2wd truck, you will need both to bend back at the exit. I found a nice oem pair with good studs on the part board. Iirc I paid $75/pair. They are also availAble after market. Iirc about $150/ pair, never used them, can't vouch for quality, though.
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[WIDESIDE72]

Btw, it's just amattrr of time before it gives you trouble again. As stated above, short of swapping the headers for ram horns, "You might consider the remote solenoid mod. A lot of places sell kits, but its basically a F*rd solenoid and a copper strap to connect the s to battery terminal. This gets the soenoid away from exhaust heat."
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[Bill Houghton]

Originally Posted by WIDESIDE72

IMO all of your problems are cauused by the headers. Sure hey look cool and the mfr promises astronomical gains, but personally, after 30 or so years of gear head-ness, I am done with headers. All of the problems you mention above, as well as leaking gaskets to constantly worry with.

Chevy dis not run the header too close to the starter. When factory equipped with the oem ram horn manifolds, you will have none of the issue mentioned above. It was only after the aftermaket/ truck owner decided tha they could "improve" on Gm's design that the problems began.

You might try a set of ram horn manifolds. With a 2wd truck, you will need both to bend back at the exit. I found a nice oem pair with good studs on the part board. Iirc I paid $75/pair. They are also availAble after market. Iirc about $150/ pair, never used them, can't vouch for quality, though.
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WideSide, thanks for the tip. I'll stop blaming Chevy's engineers.