Front end rebuild, kit or pieces?

[swissarmychainsaw]

1975 GMC 1/2 ton.

The front end on this this a complete mess. If you drive on a crack/uneven pavement (like where new asphalt is laid) it wants to wander left and right.

Essentially does not feel safe.

Latest is it all of the sudden started pulling left pretty dramatically, where it tracked straight before.
I'm not driving on the highway anymore!

I just has the frame welded where it cracked at the steering box (the guy had to split one of the tie rod joints -- I believe it was the inner tie rod).

All the grease fittings looked like they have not had grease in years. Does NOT squeak or anything, just kind of wanders when you drive down the road.

It's bad enough that I'm considering just replacing "everything" meaning:

Upper and Lower ball joints
Tie rods
Idler/pitman arms

Questions:
1. should I just fix what is broken?
2. Is it better to get a complete kit,or buy individual parts?
3. And lastly, is this the time to replace the front springs, while I'm in there?

(Brake lines are getting done!)

Pics are here:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=595899

Thoughts are appreciated by those who have been there!
Nick

[ofnaman]

Personally, I'd go with doing the whole thing. Parts are relatively inexpensive for these trucks and if you do the whole thing you'll know what's been done. Have a reputable shop do the alignment after and you should be set for a while. It would be a good time to change the front springs if you need to, because the whole front end will basically be apart (assuming your doing balljoints).

[ofnaman]

Forgot to mention, I've been pricing parts around here for my project, and I find some parts are cheaper at one store than another. Ultimately, I've found Summit racing has most of the components at a good price, and they are right down the street from me, so that is where we are probably going to get them.

[BONUSCAB]

Advance Auto has 40% coupon codes floating around on a regular basis, and this includes free shipping. It's capped at $40 off per order, so split the order into multiple orders as needed. And get everything:

ball joints
control arm bushings
inner and outer tie rod ends
tie rod end sleeves
center link
pitman arm
idler arm
springs

I'd also do the Jeep Cherokee steering shaft swap.



And I'd address any issues with the brakes while you're in there, and inspect and at the least repack the wheel bearings. I think you could buy all the parts for the above for well under $500, but I haven't priced anything. And after everything above is done, if there is any slop or wander throw a reman steering box on it.

[tucsonjwt]

I agree with what has been stated above, but I would also consider the control arms. If you have a worn out front end to the extent you state, the control arms (both upper and lower) may need replacement. My lower left control arm was so wore out that a rebuild was not possible. If you do need control arms - this is one place where I would spend the money for AC Delco/GM OEM parts. I got a Raybestos replacement and it did not have the keyhole slot for the brake line bracket to attach, and required hacking to make it work.

Be advised the control arms are expensive, but without good control arms the other parts won't give you a good result.

I would drive your truck to a repair shop that advertises free safety checks and get their opinion on what is wrong, with special attention paid to those control arms. You would get a second semi-professional opinion for free, or take it to a good alignment shop and pay a little for an inspection to save a lot in the long run. Plus, they should let you take a look at the truck with it up on the rack and that will be a big help.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Well to answer my own question: It seems that there are no kits.

So I just got an estimate from the Local Napa guy for Moog replacement parts:

Tie Rod End - inner
Tie Rod End - outer
Tie Rod Adj. Sleeve
Idler Arm
Pitman arm
Ball Joint Upper
Ball Joint Lower
Control Arm Bushing Upper
Control Arm Bushing Lower

Total = $510

(also HD Springs $116 (pair)

I just did the same thing at rockauto.com using all Moog or AC/DELCO parts and it came to $275

(springs $64)

Pretty hard to believe the difference in prices. I like having local auto parts (good ones) and prefer to buy local, but wow!

I looked at doing the whole control arm (counting that it comes with the A-arm bushings and ball joints) but it brought the total way over $500 (uppers only), which I'm trying to avoid. Course the Labor of replacing the bushings and ball joints might be well worth the extra $$.

Also found out that my truck with BARELY fit in the garage, which means I'm going to have to do this job outside, which kind sux. yeah yeah.

What do you suppose a should would charge to install all this? Gotta be $5-800, don't you think?

PS -- good thing about Napa is you can "buy the tools to do the Job and return them for the full price". That is their version of a Rental. I like it!

What else am I missing?
Should I do the springs too? Seems like now is the time while I have everything apart.
Regular or HD (mine is a 350, the HD are the Big Block springs)???

Thanks guys!
--Nick

[frog210]

I got my
Idler
Pitman arm
2 inner ties
2 outer ties
2 adjusting sleeves
For like 130 when I did my rebuilt, that was auto zone, check your control arms, I found out 9ne of mine was walloed out after they pressed the ball joint out.
Check the for sale forum some ppl sell rebuilt arms qlready done,

[coloradosean2009]

Rebuilding my c'20 front end this weekend. All moog parts. New wheel bearings as well.

[tucsonjwt]

Try the following before you buy. Usually, you will find yourself buying from different suppliers to get the best price on the whole lot.

www.oewarehouse.com
www.oehq.com
www.autopartstomorrow.com
www.gmpartsdirect.com (high shipping cost, but low prices)

If you can get the GM and/or AC Delco part numbers from Rock Auto, that is the best way to search online. Don't forget to search Amazon and Ebay for those part numbers. The only parts that I would stay with GM or Delco on are the complete control arms and/or control arm bushings. Also, if you have a front sway bar I would replace the sway bar bushings - maybe with polyurethane on this one component only.

[swissarmychainsaw]

Originally Posted by coloradosean2009

Rebuilding my c'20 front end this weekend. All moog parts. New wheel bearings as well.

Take some pics and post them when you do it

[BMERDOC]

Although I am a BMW tech and am used to people with deep pockets I am still budget minded and practice proper diagnosis. I see you found a few problem areas but have you checked everything? By that I mean have you raised the front end and shaken the wheels to look for loose parts? Are the wheel bearings freshly packed? Do any of the tie rods have play in the joints? Does the steering box have play? What condition are the ball joints and control arm bushings in? The ball joints should be checked with the frame supported and a jack underneath the lower control arm to take the tension off the ball joints. Grab the tires at 9 and 3 o'clock and wiggle them. Any play? Do it again at 12 and 6. What did you find? I looked at your link and saw the front suspension. I can't argue that if you have the funds a complete rebuild would be great but there is nothing wrong with doing it in stages. If you need a tie rod then replace the whole steering linkage from side to side (minus the center link), if you need upper control arm bushings replaced then replace all four and consider replacing the ball joints while they are out. So on, so forth.
As an example, when I got my 67 I checked the front end and only ended up replacing the right upper control arm shaft kit. The rest of the suspension was nice and tight. It even had the original ball joints in it and they are still good. That saved me a ton of money that afforded me the chance to upgrade other items. Good luck on getting it straight!

[swissarmychainsaw]

BMERDOC -- You pretty much hit it on the head.

The first step is to make this thing safe to drive, and in NO WAY am I trying to throw money at it. SO...

I am bringing it to my local mechanic to get his opinion on what really needs to be replace.

Because it drives so bad, I really want to rule out Control arm stuff (which seems like the hardest part to replace).

So we'll see what he says (tomorrow) and go from there.
--Nick

[BMERDOC]

Dont forget to update us!!

[1977cheyenne_C10]

check RockAuto.com their prices a cheaper than Napa with Moog parts. i bought mines from Rock auto

[coloradosean2009]

Originally Posted by swissarmychainsaw

in NO WAY am I trying to throw money at it. SO...


--Nick

While I generally agree with the statement, unless you know that the front ball joints, tie rod ends, pitman arm and idler arm have been changed recently (which in a truck like ours could be 20+ years or more), then you should consider doing them all. Parts is one thing, labor is another. If you are doing ball joints, the extra labor to do it all is nominal. Then you are guaranteed to have it all done and in specification. Just my $.02

[swissarmychainsaw]

After some schedule juggling I got the truck to the mechanic.

1.) He confirmed how bad it drives: "I only went around the block, it's obvious something is not right."

2.) Ball joints and pitman arm show enough wear to warrant replacement, but he was scratching his head because the way it goes down the road, he expected "something literally to be ready to fall off." But he did not find a real smoking gun.

3.) Control arm bushings: They are frayed but not making metal to metal contact, or noise, etc.
He also said, "it's possible to replace the ball joints and pitman/idler and tie rod ends and still have it go down the road badly"; meaning he's not sure about what's wrong exactly.

4.) Probably unrelated, but I thought I would pass it on: he found the transmission crossover bolts were really lose on one side, and "dangling" from the other!

My guess is that we are missing something.

But I have a neat idea. I have a Go-Pro camera and I'm thinking about rigging it up so you can actually watch the front end as it drives down the road!

Remember that I had a frame crack repaired (welded plus ORD steering box brace put in). I wonder if something sinister isn't going on that you can't see.

Thoughts?

[swissarmychainsaw]

Originally Posted by 1977cheyenne_C10

check RockAuto.com their prices a cheaper than Napa with Moog parts. i bought mines from Rock auto

I have found this to be true also. I had Napa price out a list of parts, and then I went to rockauto.com and they were something like just over half the price of Napa.
Thing is I would like to support my local shops, but man!
--Nick

[Jonboy]

On my '79, the front end had been rebuilt prior to me acquiring the truck, but it went down the road really funny. After looking, the center link was in backwards, and it caused the tie rod ends to be on the wrong side. You had to fight to keep the truck on the road. A simple fix, but it was a little disconcerting.

[coloradosean2009]

"My guess is that we are missing something.

But I have a neat idea. I have a Go-Pro camera and I'm thinking about rigging it up so you can actually watch the front end as it drives down the road!

Remember that I had a frame crack repaired (welded plus ORD steering box brace put in). I wonder if something sinister isn't going on that you can't see.

Thoughts?"

Always look at the last thing that was changed before a new symptom comes up. That is the source of the problem, 90% of the time.