camaro subframe vs drop axle an disc brake setup

[ng64]

Title says it all I'm sure this topic has been brought up before if anyone has a link that would be great. But what are the pros an cons of both an which is better? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I'm kinda leanin towards drop axle an disc brake conversion. I just wanna weigh all optionss before I get in too deep. Thanks in advance

[oldman3]

ng64, well I see you have had 36 people look at you post with no replies. I have not done a camaro front clip to our frames. I have seen many that appear to wide, have to set high, or a lot of back spacing on wheels. I would check width of clip before doing anything. This is just my .02, I'M NO EXPERT...Jim

[Speedbumpauto]

Too many better options out there now unless you're a fabricator of sorts and you're on a budget....and I'm just finishing up a camaro clip project of many years and it's turning out pretty good. I'd never leave the solid axle under it, but that's just me. Look at the newer M-2 based stuff and the set up from the company that's on here.(name escapes me right now) They easily cover the shortcomings listed above by oldman and I had to work really hard to overcome them and it was more expensive.

[ng64]

Thanks for the replies ill look more into an ifs setup I'm a pretty good fabricator but just limited on space an also have baby comin so that's why I was leanin towards drop axle

[mr48chev]

A dropped axle is almost entirely an unbolt and bolt back on affair with little or no fabricating and it doesn't require a high degree of mechanical skill. You do either have to take your axle off and send it in and wait until it comes back or pay a core charge and either eat the core charge and keep your old axle or send the old axle back to get the core charge back. UPS fees probably are more than the Core fee on some axles though.
The dropped axle is also going to give you the least amount of down time and the axle swap and brake swap could be done at different times even though it would require a bit of backtracking if you decided to divide the costs between a few paydays. You could put it back together with the drum brakes and then pull them off later to install the disk setup.

I didn't hunt your old posts so I don't know if you have an AD or Task Force truck but personally I'll never subframe another AD truck as there is a whole lot of sheet metal work (trimming) involved to get the nose to fit the subframe.

one option that doesn't require a lot of fabricating or down time would be a bolt on MII style crossmeber. They have them for AD trucks but I'm not sure about task force. All you need for that is a good 1/2 inch drill, a hand full of wrenches and hopefully a good helper but a guy can do it himself with no help pretty easily.

[nvrdone]

I would never clip any kind of chassis due to concerns about the welds cracking and the clip falling apart while I'm driving. I know I'm paranoid.
Iq would consider using a m2 style kit.
I've got a dropped axle with disc brakes and I'm happy with the way it drives even if I do have to watch out for high spots in the road.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Nvrdone,
You ARE a little paranoid cause an MII cross member has to be welded in too, so those welds could crack also.

As for your dropped axle, did you have the kingpins rebuilt?
The steering arms adjusted to cope with bump steer?

[Russell Ashley]

I think you will wind up spending almost as much on a dropped axle, disc brakes, and power steering as a good M2 setup costs. There are much better options that don't require a lot of fabrication and don't require frame mods, plus have rack and pinion steering..

Search for a thread by Katrina10, where he installed a Scott's bolt in suspension on his AD. There are plenty of other options but I like the one piece cross member that Scott's has.

[ng64]

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't even think about power steering so russell ur probably right about it costin as much. By the way I forgot to mention my truck is a task force. As far as welds cracking Im definitely not worried about that if it does happen I'm gonna have to find a new way to make a living.

[Indian113]

I think if you google Camaro clips you'll find out they actually fit TF trucks real well. I'm saving a Camaro clip so when I ever find a TF I'm gonna clip it.

[ng64]

That's what I thought an it seems everyone was using the camaro front clip an would be a lot cheaper in my opinion.

[oldman3]

Well, it seems I have to back track here abit and eat some words. First I assumed (yes I know) that it was an AD frame, my mistake. That being said, yes the camaro clip works in the TF frame. I would still check on widths, etc...Jim

[mr48chev]

They do work a lot better on Task Force trucks than on AD trucks.

This Thread on the Hamb has pretty well become one of the main go to threads for the Task force/Camaro swap. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=148978 He details it out pretty well and had done a number of them in his shop before the one he did the article on.

Expense wise the dropped axle/disk brake swap is going to run somewhat more most of the time. That actually gets up in $$ range of the entry level MII style setups.

Between my 48 and the 51 merc I had I put probably close to 200 k on subframed rigs . The only issue being that i had to cut up the front end sheetmetal on both for clearance for the subframes and A arms.

[LOW A D]

I have built many old trucks over the years, both for myself and for customers. I have used almost every front end suspension at one time or another, from camaro clips, mustang cross members, corvette, etc. Each style of suspension has pros and cons so you have to weigh out your options for your situation based on your fabrication skills and budget for the build. I have built several task force trucks and the camaro clip works well on them. In my opinion, the clip is the cheapest way to go and gives a great ride, but requires some fab work. The straight axle will be easiest labor wise but will end up costing more and will not ride as nice. There are many ways to do the front end, pick the one that is right for you and go for it.

[Indian113]

I feel a lot of the hate for a Camaro Clip is that it is difficult to Lay Frame and run the Rubberband wheels and tires. I have done a clip in one afternoon and the next day we hung the sheetmetal. It was a decent job for 2 of us but it turned out nice. hooking up the steering and the inner fenders was a little complicated but it too got done fairly easy. My style of truck will handle a clip I guess what I'm trying to say is each style has its Pro's and Con's What ever works for you will be up to you. Ray

[ng64]

Thanks for all the replies an I think camaro front clip is the way I wanna go. Now just have to locate one an get started thanks again for all the help

[Indian113]

If your worried about width the 68-74 Nova,Apollo, Omega are about 1 1/2 to 2 inches narrower than a Camaro. But they are rear steer and Camaros are front steer. Also most Camaros come with a sway bar. I forgot the Pontiac Ventura.

[Speedbumpauto]

AND you need to worry about the width if you want any kind of offset in your front wheels and still have "some" turning radius. Problem gets worse if you like them low like me. Also, the rear steer has it's own set of problems. Also consider if you find a decent donor, it will probably need all the bushings and steering linkage and that equals $$. I opted for Heidts short tubular control arms for my 76 F bird clip and that helped the wheel/turn problem but it still won't turn as short as I'd like. The big plus is V-8 mounting and PS is very easy....but it's parallel/recirculating ball, not rack and pinion. It's Scotts conversion I was thinking about in my first post. Pretty sweet but you gotta save some money up. I've heard the Monte Carlo could be a better choice for a fabrication type of guy. Your time will end up mattering so be happy with whatever your choice is.

[xaircav]

Just my humble opinion guys but a lot of us are working with limited skills, tools and funds. I redid my front axle with Stainless Steel brakes needle bearing king pins, modern style tie rod and drag link, 11" disc brake conversion, CPP sway bar and new shocks. Next I'm going to disassemble the front springs, clean, paint and install liners. Many of you have said this improves the ride greatly. This route fit my budget and was within my abilities.

[Speedbumpauto]

True enough but this guy made a comment above about welds cracking that led me to believe he is up to the task and knows what he's doing. I personally think front end fabrication is sometimes easier than changing the king pins in some of those old axles.

[xaircav]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

True enough but this guy made a comment above about welds cracking that led me to believe he is up to the task and knows what he's doing. I personally think front end fabrication is sometimes easier than changing the king pins in some of those old axles.

True that. I still have a scar where I smacked my hand driving out my old KP bushings.

[Coach529]

I struggles with this question for quite some time. At the advice of some long time AD guys I looked into some higher quality IFS kits, like Fatman, etc.

The kits ran between $1800 and $3000 without brakes. There is cheaper stuff out there......but I really liked the quality of the Fatman stuff.

Due to a budget I did a Drop Axle from Sid and disc brake kit from Speedway. Total was about $1200. That is full meal deal from Sid. New everything from the steering box to the wheel bearings.

Eventually I can see myself going to a IFS kit and selling the Sid's axle for 40-50% of what I have invested.

There are a lot of them running around but I would never clip one of these trucks. Personal opinion only.

[nvrdone]

Here's what I have been told by an old school hot rod fab guy and certified welder.
He said that our frames are softer metal designed to flex but the clips are stiffer metal designed not to flex. There fore the butt welds and fish plates stand a good chance of failing over time. I have no problem with the mII or similar kits because you don't cut the frame.
If I had lots of money I would have jim Meyer in Portland or build me a new chassis with chevelle style front and rear suspension like in nascar.
I have a SIDS dropped axle with new king pins, tie rod ends etc and I do like the way it handles.

[dubie]

I used a dropped axle, mono leafs on all 4 corners, upgraded by tie rod and ends, new drag link, bent the steering arm to avoid bump steer and installed a front disc brake kit on my 56 last year. In the end, the entire conversion cost me the same as an entire M2 set up, hub to hub, would have cost me. The only reason I chose to go dropped axle was for the nostalgic look and feel. I run manual steering with a stock 17" wheels and it steers quite easily so for me, power steering isn't an issue.