Stock AC? or Vintage Air? That is the question!

[Hatzman]

So my 1970 c10 has factory air, works well, and already has a Vintage Air (VA) compressor instead of a stock one...

I have noticed many folks here have VA... Is that because you did not have air to begin with? Or swapped out the original for VA because of .... ?

Is VA better than factory air? I like the fact that VA gets deleted from the engine compartment, and I can smooth out the firewall and delete all the holes.

Anyone have any pros and cons??

[thelonerife]

I had factory A/C on a few of my trucks and put a lot of money into keeping them going. I will never put a dime in a stock system now. I'll do the V.A. on all my trucks and forget it.

[Hatzman]

Thanks for the quick reply Chuck. Do you think it would be a detriment if I welded up all the openings/holes that were used for the stock AC/heater system? I believe VA sells a hole kit with caps that cover up the holes, but my intention is to weld plates over the large openings and make the firewall smooth as glass.

Your thoughts?

[thelonerife]

If your going to make it a show truck yes I would smooth it and get a bulk head for connections. It is a lot better looking. I am using the plastic block off cover as I'm just doing a driver. You can look in my build but I'm not sure which page its on. Porter built sells a kit too.

[Pro Performance]

A lot of guys weld up and smooth the compete firewall, just leaving the holes for the lines to come into the cab. Shaving the firewall will leave a cleaner look than the plate that comes in the kit.... not that the plate is bad, but I prefer the smooth looking firewall.

[Hatzman]

It's not going to be a show "show" truck, but it will be nice, and I'm planning on using it whenever I want. I don't want to build it to the point where I am afraid to drive it. (if that makes sense)

[chuckmc8]

It it was mine and the A/C is working good I would do something else..... :-)

[derotoreut]

It all depends on you, and what you're looking for out of your trucks. My K10 has stock A/C, but my C20 has Vintage Air. The C20 is modified with 383 stroker engine, front disc conversion, Lokar shifter, etc. So that truck I didn't care about the keeping it OE. The K10 is pretty much stock. As you can see by my pictures I didn't smooth the firewall, but it still looks OK.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

Thanks for the quick reply Chuck. Do you think it would be a detriment if I welded up all the openings/holes that were used for the stock AC/heater system? I believe VA sells a hole kit with caps that cover up the holes, but my intention is to weld plates over the large openings and make the firewall smooth as glass.

Your thoughts?

The bolt on plates don't look very good. The PO of my truck butchered the firewall installing a home grown AC so I cut and welded in new 16 ga panels. Much mo bettah!

[48richard]

The main difference between factory air and aftermarket systems like VA is that the factory system brings in fresh air all the time, unless you have it set to inside air. The aftermarket systems cool and re-circulate the air inside the cab all the time. so they cool down faster and don't work so hard to keep the cab cool. On the other hand, it's the same old air all the time, and it's a pretty small cab.

[Andy4639]

I have the factory AC setup with a late model compressor along with a condensor and acumalator for 134-A. I put mine up against anybodies for the cooling effect. Mine runs as cool as you need it. It runs 38 degree's on 90 degree days here in South Carolina.
You can permanently close off the cowl vent and the factory AC does the same as the aftermarket units. It re-circulates the cab air and keeps it nice and cool. this is how mine is setup.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

So my 1970 c10 has factory air, works well, and already has a Vintage Air (VA) compressor instead of a stock one...

You have the best of both worlds. A factory appearing system that works with a modern compressor that doesn't rob HP or fuel economy like the originals... save yourself a lot of $ and leave it alone.

VA is awesome, Have it in my C10 and 65 mustang. C10 didn't have air and mustang would have cost almost as much to replace/refurbish broken factory system, so I went modern with it... however in your case, I wouldn't do a damn thing

[Hart_Rod]

Va!!!

[Hatzman]

Wow Fitz, that Grey/Silver trucks firewall looks sweet. That's the look I'm aiming for. Andy4639, I am dropping a LQ9 motor in my truck, and will need to move the compressor to the top right portion of the motor. I already have a VA compressor for it (which was in the truck with the stock system prior to the dismantle)

I called VA yesterday and they told me I would need a new compressor because the one I'm using now is V-groove pulley, and I would now require a serpentine belt pulley. They said they do not sell pulleys separately. How crappy is that!

Anyone have anymore photos of their VA AC system's, or LS swap?

Thanks,

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

Wow Fitz, that Grey/Silver trucks firewall looks sweet. That's the look I'm aiming for. Andy4639, I am dropping a LQ9 motor in my truck, and will need to move the compressor to the top right portion of the motor. I already have a VA compressor for it (which was in the truck with the stock system prior to the dismantle)

I called VA yesterday and they told me I would need a new compressor because the one I'm using now is V-groove pulley, and I would now require a serpentine belt pulley. They said they do not sell pulleys separately. How crappy is that!

Anyone have anymore photos of their VA AC system's, or LS swap?

Thanks,

I had to swap mine also. The bracket to relocate it is as much as the compressor to! I have the LQ4 out of a HD 2500. 305 torque at rear wheels and 280HP at the wheels.
Here is the old motor. You want be able to have it run by the computer either unless you modify the wiring harness.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

I called VA yesterday and they told me I would need a new compressor because the one I'm using now is V-groove pulley, and I would now require a serpentine belt pulley. They said they do not sell pulleys separately. How crappy is that!

Anyone have anymore photos of their VA AC system's, or LS swap?

Thanks,

That doesn't mean you can't buy one. V/A likely does not sell the part, hence why they said you need a new compressor. Google search your model number compressor (probably a sanden 508). Type in "Sanden XXX serpentine clutch" and you should come up with results. You can buy just a clutch.

It is an involved process though:

Sanden Clutch explanation by Nostalgic Air...

[nicks diner]

I don't know if this helps but I just purchased a filler panel kit from Infanti machine and I could not be happier with the product and service. My body shop told me they fit like a glove, going to go this weekend check it out. Good luck

[barraza]

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY I would trade a working factory air system for vintage air. I have cars with both, and the factory system is heads and shoulders better.

VA is ok, but the lack of fresh air intake is a huge negative. Especially in the fall, spring and winter, when temps are moderate. With a factory system, you can set the temp control anywhere from cool to hot as temps dictate, and let the fresh air coming in flow. With a VA system, you have to run the (noisy) fan and it is much harder to regulate the temp.

When the humidity is really high, you can also get times when it is cool but clammy.

The lack of outside air is purely because the systems are undersized. Take it for what its worth.

[Hatzman]

What a dilema...

So here is what I am figuring on pros and cons of keeping the old system...

Pros... Smooth firewall, clean look inside the engine bay, whole new system (probably no issues for a long time to come), less clutter under the dash for ECM and accelerator to be mounted, save lots of money on a VA system and... ?? (can't think of anything else)


Cons... Cluttered engine bay, old system needs new gaskets, O rings, replace heater motor (since system is out and easy to replace), clutter under the dash which leaves less room for me to mount the ECM and accelerator module, spending over $1200, no ventilation (no outside ventilation is a big concern of mine), possibility of something breaking as soon as I am done installing everything and ...? (can't think of anything else)

Can anyone else think of any pros or cons? I can't make up my mind! Has anyone seen any real issues with ventilation?

[Hart_Rod]

Your fresh air cowl vents still work. I still say VA.

[396ci]

More fuel for your fire...

My friend Dave used to own a 67-72 parts supply company and had access to all the stock a/c components so that is what he used in his personal truck. When I asked him if he would do it again, he said no. While the stock system with R12 will get a little colder, he said that a VA kit would be the way to go.

If your trying to build a 'correct' truck I can see using the stock stuff but if you goal is to have a truck with efficient a/c then a VA kit would be better in the long run even though the initial buy in is $1200.

Stay cool my friend...

[magwakeenercew2jh]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

What a dilema...

Can anyone else think of any pros or cons? I can't make up my mind! Has anyone seen any real issues with ventilation?

I have installed two VA systems. I thought I was smarter than I was on the first one and filled it myself. That was stupid. After an evacuation and a refill,
I loved it enough to do the install on this, the next truck.

I have what I think is one of the last of the previous generation that uses the "wire cables" to open and close the lines/doors. I never had any problems with
these, but I'll assume that the new ones are better.

Still, very uneventful install. Clear instructions. Not what I'd call "easy", but absolutely not *hard* to install. I'd do it again.

I've had no problem with a need for outside air. In fact, I was looking for a way to get comfortable in the cab and close up the cowl and side vents. VA
was the ticket for that. If I want some spring or summer or fall outside air I've got wind wings. Works for me.

As for the serp system and the need for a different pulley, I probably missed the point. I'd figure you can get a pulley from a Sanden supplier and replace it.....
...Like in 67chevyredneck's post. But, what do I know?

One flaw, drawback, or whatever on the VA set up: The hoses on the Surefit kit wanna go where they wanna go. VA will crimp them to specs free if you send 'em back.
I did that. But next time...if there ever is a next time, I'm gonna plumb it to make the hoses go back behind the fender and into the cab where you can't see them.

This time, I going to replace the raw, hand-polished aluminum plate I made with what you see sitting on my seat. It was given to me by a Member and friend (thanks, Tom).
It's a ball-milled aluminum plate and round "fan" close off I had anodized black. So, when I pull the motor, I'm going to change over. Should be cleaner.

Having said all of that, if I had good working factory air, I wouldn't change it out. Why? I think the stock ones look good. And, saving $1,200 plus. And having a
nicely operating stock set up?

Not my business, but if I had your set up, I'd get the pulley and call it good.

[67ChevyRedneck]

The V/A system has been in my truck since 2006. It's been driven in 15* temps and 110* temps. I've had no issues with it. You don't lose the DS fresh air vent. You actually don't have to lose the PS one if you want to spend a little time modifying the arm a little. I think the boxes have gotten even smaller now. I've put over 30K on the truck with it. It's been up and down mountains, in rain, fog, etc. It works well and doesn't rob near as much HP or fuel economy from the motor as the stock compressor does.

Again, I'd leave a working system with a modern compressor alone.

[Hatzman]

Thanks to all for the input. After seeing Hart-Rod's build, I was convinced VA... So when I am done, I will have a fully stock 1970 AC system for sale...

Hart-Rod... What a bad a$$ ride... Need to pick your brain please!

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by Hatzman

Thanks to all for the input. After seeing Hart-Rod's build, I was convinced VA... So when I am done, I will have a fully stock 1970 AC system for sale...

Hart-Rod... What a bad a$$ ride... Need to pick your brain please!

PM me whatever questions you have.