Question About "Stance" After IFS Installation

[Dan in Pasadena]

I recently posted I bought a Fatman Fabrications IFS kit and need advice on rear suspension mods that'll give me a nice stance. I want the truck lower with flat or slightly lower front end but not low enough to give me problems entering/exiting driveways, etc. It'll be a driver, but I hope a nice looking driver. Non airbags, period.

Right now I am running 235/75x15's or approximately 29" tall...(well, 28.98" to be exact). These rims/tires are 5x4.75's, the kit has a 5x5 lug pattern. So they may be leaving. A buddy is offering some used chrome TT's, with new 235/70x15 BFG's on them. They'll be slightly over 28". I'm not a big fan of these but he's offering the set at a very good price.

The kit instructions claim it'll lower the truck "3-4". But my front spring packs are honked up with one less leaf on one side than the other! So the only thing I know is it'll be SOMEWHAT lower than now but since I don't know where my front height is compared to a truck with "good" old, and matching leafs I'm kinda blind til it's done.

Right now I'm thinking of flipping my rear axle on top of the leafs but flipping the spring hangers ala THIS thread:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ight=Flip+rear


...for a total rear drop of about () 5.5"

Do you think this'll result in an approximately level to slightly raked stance? Other suggestions?

[mr48chev]

As far as wheels go you can stock GM 15 inch 5 on 5 rims everywhere off Mid 70's cars. Caprice, Olds 98 Bigger Pointiacs all had 5 on 5 rims. Most are six or 7 inches wide though. That would be a dirt cheap way to take care of that and keep your tires. A little hunting and you can find some narrower rims probably on mid 60's models of Big GM cars.

Here Scroll down the page to 65 I think that is what you want and you will like the link anyhow as it has a lot of answers on your truck.
http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/docs...2nd-Series.pdf

It looks like they are showing 29.51 inches for the height of the bed floor on a stock truck.

[dubie]

Flipping the rear axle will give a very nice rake after you install the IFS. If you're concerned about ride height, why not invest in a pair of adjustable coil overs over the front? I know you'll be ALOT happier with the ride quality with the IFS than you would be with a dropped leaf suspension for a daily driver.
If you don't want to flip the rear, you could always look into a rear 4 link or fab in a set of trailing arm suspension from a 67-72 coil rear end truck

[_Ogre]

i have a fatman mustII ifs and flipped rear axle with 235-70R14 on front, tire width 6.6, tire diameter 27.0
not sure how level my truk was before rodsteration but it's pretty level maybe a little rake now
the flipped axle in back will lower the rear 7 inches



and in grass

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by dubie

....If you don't want to flip the rear, you could always look into a rear 4 link or fab in a set of trailing arm suspension from a 67-72 coil rear end truck

I don't mind flipping the rear on top of the leafs if that's what it takes to have the stance I'm looking for. After a long time of not wanting to notch the frame I don't think I'll mind it if I need to do it.

But I'm not going to go for a 4 link. I simply don't think I need it for the probably 150-160hp my little 283 puts out and the talk in the thread I linked above says that flipping the spring mount gives a nicer ride. That plus cleaning/painting the leafs, using the Teflon between them and modern shocks ought to make the ride QUITE a bit better.

[_Ogre]

don't be shocked at how high the front end is initially
put the whole truck back together before you start cutting coils or add drop spindles
i'm not sure truck would be streetable with dropped spindles, especially on michigan roads

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

These rims/tires are 5x4.75's, the kit has a 5x5 lug pattern. So they may be leaving. A buddy is offering some used chrome TT's, with new 235/70x15 BFG's on them. They'll be slightly over 28". I'm not a big fan of these but he's offering the set at a very good price.

If you like your current wheels why not just get some rotors with the bolt pattern you need? Most Mustang 2 units use the same Granada rotors which are offered in many bolt patterns, the calipers are usually metric GM. Rotors are cheap or you could have your current rotors redrilled which may be even cheaper.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Bam.
I've been wondering if Fatman fabrications would consider swapping me these 5x5 rotors which are brand new, never-installed for 5x4.75's at minimal cost (or MAYBE no cost)?

But if they won't because it's been too long since the original purchaser bought them, maybe I could exchange them at a NAPA or just buy new ones and sell these on Craigslist?

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Bam.
I've been wondering if Fatman fabrications would consider swapping me these 5x5 rotors which are brand new, never-installed for 5x4.75's at minimal cost (or MAYBE no cost)?

But if they won't because it's been too long since the original purchaser bought them, maybe I could exchange them at a NAPA or just buy new ones and sell these on Craigslist?

[Iceburgh]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Thanks Bam.
I've been wondering if Fatman fabrications would consider swapping me these 5x5 rotors which are brand new, never-installed for 5x4.75's at minimal cost (or MAYBE no cost)?

But if they won't because it's been too long since the original purchaser bought them, maybe I could exchange them at a NAPA or just buy new ones and sell these on Craigslist?

If you bought recently they will swap if you pay for the shipping each way.
At least they did for me

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Iceburgh

If you bought recently they will swap if you pay for the shipping each way.
At least they did for me

I forgot to include in THIS thread that the kit was purchased from a Craigslist ad. The seller had acquired it from the prior owner of his '58 aborted-project but it had never been taken out of the boxes, so no it's not recently purchased.

I'll call Fatman and inquire but I don't really expect them to be willing to make a swap now, at least not for free. So the question is can I make a swap at all via my local NAPA for example OR do I have to spring for new hubs on my own and sell these?

[ChuckDriver]

I would just get them re-drilled to the 5x4.75 if you cant get them exchanged.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Hi JJ,
Not to be too dumb but where would I go for that? Just any local machine shop? Do they weld shut the old holes or just move over a bit and leave the holes open?

[Dan in Pasadena]

A little off the original "stance" question, did you guys that installed IFS all replace the steering column? I'm thinking that has to be easier than cutting and reusing the factory one, plus machining (or filing?) flats on the cut shaft.

I'm thinking an Ididit or Flaming River column as I've not heard too many say they're happy with the Chinese ones off eBay. I've also heard to use 30" or 32". I only 5'-10". I don't really want to go on a junkyard search and I have floor shift and want to leave it that way with the original ignition switch on the dash. Other suggestions?

[Russell Ashley]

Dan, if you want to keep the original look it's not hard to keep the original column. I kept mine and I even have the three speed shifter box on mine. CPP makes a kit called "Column Saver" that simplifies things. It's a bushing and flat bearing for the bottom of the column. You will have to cut the column and "D" the shaft but after that it's almost no different than installing an after market column. You also won't have to make any T/S wiring changes if you keep the original column, not to mention it will also be a lot cheaper.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Russ. Did you do the "drill a 1/4" hole and bolt it" approach or did you use the, "weld on a piece of splined column" approach?

I admit I do kinda like the original column look. I suppose they're not all that safe in a direct front collision, but then again the entire truck isn't all that safe in a collision anyway. I have nothing against a tilt column except in my experience once adjusted, I never readjust it!

[tmoble]

Hi Dan,

Here's what I did to save my stock column. This is a 79 WS-6 T/A front sub with a 12:1 box. The intermediate shaft, u-joint and rag joint are off an early Toronado, kinda handy the way the length worked out. I bolted the rag and intermediate shaft to the box, saw where I needed to cut the steering shaft, moved back a couple inches, marked the mast jacket. measured the diameter of the shaft and the inside of the mast jacket, went to a bearing supply house, counter guy helped my find a bearing that fit both. made a hacksaw split in the jacket, installed the bearing , clamped with an aircraft grade hose clamp. if you look close you can see a big washer welded to the shaft. pushed down on the steering wheel to compress the internal spring, tacked the washer in place. welded it after making sure everything was going to fit. I had a couple inches of shaft sticking out, welded the short stub of shaft off the Toronado onto it. the Toronado steering shaft was tubular, made everything easy. This was in 1993, I've never had to lay a finger on it since. At least 200K miles.

[Russell Ashley]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Thanks Russ. Did you do the "drill a 1/4" hole and bolt it" approach or did you use the, "weld on a piece of splined column" approach?

I admit I do kinda like the original column look. I suppose they're not all that safe in a direct front collision, but then again the entire truck isn't all that safe in a collision anyway. I have nothing against a tilt column except in my experience once adjusted, I never readjust it!

Dan, I used a Borgeson joint that had a "D" shaped opening. I ground a flat on the end of the steering shaft to make it fit the Borgeson joint. I drilled a shallow hole where the set screw went, and I used Loctite red on the set screw and lock nut. Regarding the shaft, my opinion is that you should always use a slip joint in the shaft as there is some movement between the cab and chassis.

You can buy u-joints with most any configuration you need, like splines on both ends, "D" on one end and splines on the other, and different dimensions like 3/4 or 7/8th shaft sizes.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Russ,

Let me reveal the depth of my ignorance on this:
If you (I) grind a flat onto the steering column shaft to allow the Borgeson joint to fit and use a set screw in a divot, where does the "slip" happen? I'd actually wondered about a solid connection too but knew I don't know enough about how it works to figure out where that happens.

On a different subject: I just got off the phone with Fatman and they tell me they will only exchange new parts with the original purchaser, but even if they would exchange with me it's not just the rotors that are different. He said it's the entire hub, bearing, and spindle that are different. He recommended (as several of you here have) that I have my hubs re-drilled for the 4.75" lug pattern.

Anyone in L.A. have a suggestion for who to do that? I'm thinking of going to my local NAPA and asking if they have a local machine shop to recommend. Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Russell Ashley]

Here's the way I have mine now. The upper joint is hard to see under the wires, but it is a Borgeson that has a D opening on both ends. This is connected to the steering shaft and to the upper section of the slip joint. The second universal is a Uni-steer joint with a D opening on each end and a short section of the D shaft connecting to the lower universal joint. The lower is also a Uni-Steer and has a D opening on the top end and a splined opening at the lower end that fits the steering rack. The two lower u-joints came with my Scott's front end and the Borgeson was from my first p/s setup from CPP. CPP and others sell what you need or you can get it from a junk yard cheaper. BTW, the Borgeson uses a set screw with a lock nut to tighten them to the shaft while the Uni-Steers have a split collar and tighten with an allen screw.

[ChuckDriver]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Hi JJ,
Not to be too dumb but where would I go for that? Just any local machine shop? Do they weld shut the old holes or just move over a bit and leave the holes open?

Yep, I'd ask the local NAPA guys who they recommend!

[Dan in Pasadena]

I called a shop I used when I first got my truck. Very reliable older guys and they referred me to a local machine shop. Very nice guy, he asked if the rotor castings ad flat space between the existing lug locations or if they had raised reinforcement ribs? I took a look and the only thing in between the existing lug pattern is a shirt reinforcement boss which may not be an issue but I'll have to let the machine shop tell me if it is.

Another thought I had is that I'll have to have this same re-machining done every time I need rotors, but realistically I won't put enough miles on the truck to require that for a decade or two! Lol. By that time I'll be 70 or 80 and I'll worry about it them, if at all. Now the question is just the quote I get when he sees them.

[tmoble]

Dan, if you ever need rotors again just buy the 4.75 version. As for the current set the machinist can either use a mill to spot face the locations for the new holes or or chuck them up in a lathe and turn the inside face, then drill. Either is OK.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Tmoble, I had the saw thought but Fatman said there's more to the difference between their kits than a rotor swap. According to them the hub, spindle and bearings are different, at least with their parts.

Anyway, it's not like I'll be eating up rotors any time soon!

[tmoble]

yeah, my 57 has had the same rotors and pads since I installed the sub in 93. Since it's a 2nd gen Camaro type deal I'm about to replace the brakes with the 12" setup off a Caprice police car.