Any ever use this?

[Turtleman]

Has anyone ever used this on their work?
Can you review it?
http://www.mrochem.com/BlackStar-Rus...rter_p_16.html

or even this stuff?
http://www.mrochem.com/Bust-da-Rust-Rust-Away_p_89.html


With all the rust we find its advertisements would be a God Sent.

[markeb01]

Sorry never heard of it.

[Turtleman]

I ordered some of both I posted here... "IF" its half of whats claimed I'll be happy... I own a tub grinder for the Nursery I have here,,, rust is always a issue with that thing..

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by Turtleman

I ordered some of both I posted here... "IF" its half of whats claimed I'll be happy... I own a tub grinder for the Nursery I have here,,, rust is always a issue with that thing..

I have seen rust converters listed by a variety of vendors under different names. The converter makes a chemical reaction that turns to Iron Oxide. What it does NOT do - and this is what really matters - it does NOT prevent rust from coming back. It does NOT permanently seal out air and moisture.

I tried a similar product under a different name. Sprays on or paints on and is easy to use. However, it only converts the rust that's on top. Take a knife and scrape the surface and you will find that rust is still beneath the top black coating.

I'd use it on a trailer or other outdoor project that needed a little help and protection. It covers the rust with a nice looking black coating, but it gives you a false sense that you have correctly treated the rust. It just ain't so!

[Anthony Fremont]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

I have seen rust converters listed by a variety of vendors under different names. The converter makes a chemical reaction that turns to Iron Oxide. What it does NOT do - and this is what really matters - it does NOT prevent rust from coming back. It does NOT permanently seal out air and moisture.

I tried a similar product under a different name. Sprays on or paints on and is easy to use. However, it only converts the rust that's on top. Take a knife and scrape the surface and you will find that rust is still beneath the top black coating.

I'd use it on a trailer or other outdoor project that needed a little help and protection. It covers the rust with a nice looking black coating, but it gives you a false sense that you have correctly treated the rust. It just ain't so!

I've used some stuff (phosphoric acid based) that converts rust to iron phosphate. It may not permanently kill the rust, but it slows it wayyyyy down. The trick is to get rid of as much rust as possible bye sanding it away, you certainly can't leave any loose rust. Then apply the metal prep and let it dry. After that you can rinse it with water and then prime it with epoxy primer. The rust won't be back for a really long time, especially if you seal it with paint. Epoxy primer is a good sealant.

My truck roof was pretty rusty and I used a greenish prep on it, forget the name though. I followed that with epoxy primer and no rust two years later sitting outside in houston. You need to get as much of the metal bright and shiny as you can, then treat it.

Look at the roof of this camaro, it was pitted pretty badly. This picture is after I sanded it a lot, but not done yet:





Here it is prepped with phosphoric acid stuff. I actually treated it and sanded it some more a few times:



Here it is ready for primer:



Here it is primed, note how more paint delaminated on the pillar posts just from pulling the masking tape off in Oct 2012:



It still looks that good, but it is starting to get a bit chalky. That's almost two years of sitting in the houston sun and rain. I would sand and reprime before putting real paint on it.

Here's my truck after I primed it two years ago:



Here it is today, no rust at all:

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by Anthony Fremont

I've used some stuff (phosphoric acid based) that converts rust to iron phosphate. It may not permanently kill the rust, but it slows it wayyyyy down. The trick is to get rid of as much rust as possible bye sanding it away, you certainly can't leave any loose rust. Then apply the metal prep and let it dry. After that you can rinse it with water and then prime it with epoxy primer. The rust won't be back for a really long time, especially if you seal it with paint. Epoxy primer is a good sealant.

My truck roof was pretty rusty and I used a greenish prep on it, forget the name though. I followed that with epoxy primer and no rust two years later sitting outside in houston. You need to get as much of the metal bright and shiny as you can, then treat it.

Look at the roof of this camaro, it was pitted pretty badly. This picture is after I sanded it a lot, but not done yet:





Here it is prepped with phosphoric acid stuff. I actually treated it and sanded it some more a few times:



Here it is ready for primer:



Here it is primed, note how more paint delaminated on the pillar posts just from pulling the masking tape off in Oct 2012:



It still looks that good, but it is starting to get a bit chalky. That's almost two years of sitting in the houston sun and rain. I would sand and reprime before putting real paint on it.

What ^^^^ he said.

IMO, current technology shows that properly sanding to remove rust, then chemically treating it with phosphates, and then sealing it with epoxy promer is the way to go.

I bet that greenish fluid Fremont used is Picklex. It's a phosphate and is expensive and not compatible with some primers. Not worth the hassle.

For small jobs where you just want to touch up a small spot or two, the rust converter is easy and will do the job. It's just not my choice if I plan to spend good money on a paint job.

[franken]

Why does pic 4 of the blue car's roof still have a rust color to the roof? I'll bet the rust will be back shortly.
Those rust converters only convert the top layer of rust. You need to apply it, sand, apply, sand, til the rust is gone. You can't just paint it on and see things turn black and say the rust is gone.
Immersing a part overnight works if you can put the part in a bucket.

[Lugnutz65]

Originally Posted by franken

Why does pic 4 of the blue car's roof still have a rust color to the roof? I'll bet the rust will be back shortly.
Those rust converters only convert the top layer of rust. You need to apply it, sand, apply, sand, til the rust is gone. You can't just paint it on and see things turn black and say the rust is gone.
Immersing a part overnight works if you can put the part in a bucket.

Franken,
Read that post again. He says that there's no rust coming through the blue car roof after 2 years. He used epoxy, not rust converter.

I agree with you, rust converter makes a skin cover over the rust, but the rust underneath remains.

Immersing in chemicals is good too, but can you immerse your truck roof?

[Anthony Fremont]

Originally Posted by franken

Why does pic 4 of the blue car's roof still have a rust color to the roof? I'll bet the rust will be back shortly.
Those rust converters only convert the top layer of rust. You need to apply it, sand, apply, sand, til the rust is gone. You can't just paint it on and see things turn black and say the rust is gone.
Immersing a part overnight works if you can put the part in a bucket.

That was from rinsing it with water. I didn't like the idea of shooting primer over the residue left by the phosphoric acid. Any time you get bare steel wet, some miniscule amount of rust is going to appear on it. The primer had no trouble covering it and keeping the moisture and air out, therefore it couldn't "grow" into anything. You can see how it looked in pic 3 with the "smear" marks from wiping the green acid stuff onto it. I didn't like that, so I rinsed it and a very thin orange appeared when it dried and sat overnight in the high houston humidity.

[Anthony Fremont]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

Franken,
Read that post again. He says that there's no rust coming through the blue car roof after 2 years. He used epoxy, not rust converter.

I agree with you, rust converter makes a skin cover over the rust, but the rust underneath remains.

Immersing in chemicals is good too, but can you immerse your truck roof?

I did use the phosphoric acid stuff on it, but only after sanding it down until there was hardly any "rust" left. I also used the acid several times, sanding after each application until I could no longer sand through it to expose more rust. The orange in the pic was just a film, that you could wipe off with your finger, but that would leave an oil residue so I left the orange alone. It appeared after washing the surface with water after the final sanding. The epoxy primer made mincemeat of it. I couldn't bring myself to shoot the primer over the residue left on the bare steel when the acid bath dried, so I rinsed it with water before shooting it.

I find that the acid helps to get more rust off than sanding alone. It seems to loosen and "lift" any significant rust so that it would sand off better. The acid makes the steel a gray color and turns the rust black. After two years of only epoxy primer, there is still no bubbling or anything showing up. I like the acid stuff.

I'm certainly no expert at paint, but I did have good luck with the green stuff. About 20 years ago I did the roof of an old impala and I used actual Naval Jelly, which was a pink gel that would eat the skin off your hands. The green stuff I used on the truck and IROC was runny like water and didn't burn my hands. I might have used rubber gloves anyway, I don't recall though. I do remember it was much weaker than the Naval Jelly was. The naval jelly penetrated a lot better. It took almost 10 years before rust started showing back up, and I never painted it, only epoxy primer.